"Yesterday I was in euphoria, I was in the clouds. We really needed it, the air had already become stifling and oppressive," says Ditsa Or, in a conversation we had on the day after the release of Fernando Marman and Luis Har from Hamas captivity in a daring operation that would have done any action movie proud, carried out by operators from the Israel Police National Counter-Terrorism Unit (Yamam) and the Shin Bet operational unit along with combat troops from the IDF's 7th Armored Brigade and Shayetet 13 Naval Commando unit. "I was genuinely in euphoria. I forgot all the meetings I had scheduled, I couldn't eat a bite. All I could do was think about those brave soldiers who really deserved to deliver this moment of salvation with their own hands, and of course also about those who had now returned home after captivity."
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"And then I saw all the messages posted by the Hostages and Missing Families Forum and it made me really sad. The key message there was 'Now is the time to exert pressure as quickly as possible for an initiative to release the remaining hostages.' But hold on a moment, before you do this at least take a second to rejoice, we also really need to say thank you. Eventually, after people from within the group applied pressure, the Forum did issue a message of congratulations, with the word 'but' before and 'but' after. I really wanted to write to Ronen Tzur: 'Can't you put it in more demoralizing terms?' This is what they have been doing from the outset. Using scare tactics, dejection and all that negative energy."
Ditsa is the mother of Avinathan Or, who was abducted from the Nova party together with his partner Noa Argamani. The chilling sight of both of these young people being taken by a frenzied throng, he by foot and she screaming as she is whisked away on a motorbike – was captured on a clip that has been shown all around the world.
In the cozy lounge at the family house in the settlement of Shiloh, large posters portray Avinathan's smiling face, the second of the seven children in the Or family. In other pictures he is seen with Noa, as they travel together around the world, smiling. Ordinarily, Ditsa is a social & emotional counselor and lecturer. Somebody who tries to keep well away from the world of current affairs and politics. But in fact, her voice has been heard right from the start of the war, and it is somewhat different from that of media consultant Ronen Tzur, who is in charge of the activity of the "Hostages and Missing Families Forum".
Q: Do you find it frustrating that you are only three families in Forum Tikva, which advocates a different approach in the hostage families' struggle?
"Three families are not wrong. And besides, there are more than three of us. Today there are approximately an additional 30 families who strongly reject the spirit of how things are conducted in the Hostages and Missing Families Forum, and who identify with the messages of Forum Tikva. It's a sort of second circle of the Forum," which has already formed its own independent WhatsApp group. "As time goes by the fraud is gradually becoming uncovered. It's unconscionable that a civilian organization that is supposed to represent a broad variety of outlooks and opinions is actually being led by a political figure with a radical agenda like Ronen Tzur. He is the best campaigner in Israel, an extremely sophisticated person, and he has managed to wreak havoc and cause tremendous damage before people caught on to what he was doing.
"More and more families have now come to understand that his campaign has distanced the public from us. To a certain extent the public has become fed up with the hostages. Opinions have begun to be voiced of 'Why do you think that your children are more important than IDF soldiers,' and opinion polls show that support for them is dwindling. This is all his doing. He can take the credit for the damage to the hostages' struggle. Instead of devoting time to self-reflection within the Forum once the poll had been published regarding the fact that the public had been alienated from the hostage families, he immediately announced that this was a campaign by the prime minister that was intended to delegitimize the hostages. He presented a list of things that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had done. Some things had indeed happened, but to depict everything as an orchestrated campaign is simply delusional. He did this to put some distance between himself and the failure."
She is not only at odds with the working methods but also the very essence of the campaign: "The declaration of bringing them back 'at any cost.' Is that really the way to conduct negotiations? Is that how you fight the enemy? It undermines the state and the army. And it is my son, a hostage in Hamas captivity, who is paying the price for this. Those who hold him now know that they can ask for any price. He simply needs to wait, to hold on and to waste time, while we are busy weakening ourselves."
In answer to the question, she doesn't like addressing the issue of "What might have happened if..." but feels that "without the Forum's activity in Israel, Avinathan might already have been home. It is clear to me that the manner in which Ronen Tzur operates only serves to sabotage the possibility of attaining the hostages' release. This is something that I have kept to myself for a long time but now the time has come for me to spit it out. It has begun to become extremely clear and transparent. For a long time, I was afraid to say this in the Forum's group. Anybody who dared to say something that doesn't go with the flow or opposes their agenda, was subject to direct personal attacks. And in any event, all of us have to deal with an extremely chaotic and challenging situation. All of us are investing tremendous efforts to remain upright and to continue functioning on a daily basis. So having to put up with that type of flak is really no easy task."
Q: Release everybody without spreading a deal out over a number of stages
Last week, she recounts, the Forum tried to get all the families to sign a letter to the prime minister calling for an effort to reach an immediate deal. "I spent a whole day investing herculean efforts to include wording in the letter that we are calling for a deal to be concluded in one stage only. At the beginning, I spoke with the volunteers in the Forum, and then I gradually started to climb the hierarchical ladder and I had already managed to obtain Ronen Tzur's phone number, but I didn't phone him. They didn't agree to include this wording, based on arguments that I simply failed to comprehend. They said that they didn't want to go into details, that this would push away the public. What do you mean push away the public, they have already been pushed away. Perhaps if you change the tune a bit then the public just might to draw a little closer again. I am not prepared to be a signatory to messages calling for panic. If they were to include the issue of a 'one-stage deal', then that would be a gain for which I would be prepared to sign it."
The opposition to a deal that would begin with a "humanitarian" release of a group of some 35 hostages including children, women, the elderly and the sick, is an existential issue for her. "That would be disastrous. My son is in the last category, just before that of the dead bodies. In each hostage release stage, whoever remains behind will pay the price. In each hostage release stage, we are gradually giving up on the leverage that Israel can bring to bear. Whoever signs a deal that is spread out over a number of stages is effectively signing the death warrant of those who remain behind in Hamas captivity. That Satanic fiend, Sinwar, is forcing us to engage in a form of human trafficking. To buy the lives of one group in return for another. And if we are engaging in a form of human trafficking, then who is to say that the life of an 84 year-old man is worth more than that of a 31 year-old man? It's a total catastrophe. I am absolutely not prepared to enter into such a dialogue, but even as a human trafficker you are a second-rate negotiator."
Q: The decision to say openly that they are causing damage – was your decision?
"Mine alone, as a result of paying attention to the reality of the situation. It's the result of the same drive that has Ronen Tzur taking off his gloves. He is becoming more and more extreme and that poses a clear and present danger to my son's life. I regret having to act in such a contrarian manner. We want to be together and to act in unison, and they are acting from a position whose trend I can clearly see is designed to undermine that unison. Over the years they talked to us about unity when what they really meant was 'keep your opinions to yourself and anybody who refuses to toe the line with us – is the one causing the division.' The radicalism that Ronen Tzur represents belongs to a very small minority, and it isn't right that this minority should determine the agenda. We live in a democracy, no?"
Alongside the biting criticism, it is important for her to also state the positive activity being carried out by the Forum: "They do engage in excellent work on the personal and human level with the families of the hostages, taking care of their welfare and providing support with the immensely difficult situation with which they must contend. And they are also doing extremely important work on the international circuit too."
She was intending to speak with Ronen Tzur personally but has not yet got round to doing so. "I am not fond of what he has done, his conduct, but I do believe that he does possess an internal part based on good. When I wanted to speak to him I sought to connect with that internal light that exists in every Jew, but I don't currently feel that I have sufficient strength to be able to successfully touch that spark inside him.
"In general, speaking is the last thing that I would naturally wish to do. In that situation, my default was to shut all the doors and windows, to remain with myself and God. But I feel that I simply don't have the right to such a luxury, to run away and shut the door behind me. I have been drafted, this is my Tzav Shemoneh (literally 'Order 8' – the Hebrew term for emergency call-up papers). And I am making a huge effort to put what I have to say into extremely precise terms."
Q: What is your opinion about the claim that the right-wing public cares less about the hostages?
"The absolute opposite is true. People are extremely committed, they are really going out of their way to do as much as possible and to help, whatever you say they will do. I think that some of the negative campaign is to place us inside the trap of saying that we need to choose between either the hostages or attaining victory in the war and toppling Hamas. As though if you choose one you have automatically given up on the other. Who says that that's how things work? That is exactly helping to serve Hamas' objectives. The correct way to release the hostages is to engage in a fight to eliminate Hamas. Whether that involves waging war in Gaza, working to sway international public opinion or economically. The reality of the situation is much more complex and enables diverse and creative solutions. Our soldiers have attained some unbelievable, glorious victories on the battlefield. Hamas' power is gradually starting to crumble. Their entire resilience and steadfastness is based on the defeatism that we tend to convey. This is a psychological war to weaken the spirit of the people."
As part of their private family struggle, for four months now they have been standing, day in day out, outside the Begin Gate entrance to the IDF HQ at the Kirya in Tel-Aviv. She stands there together with Yaron, Avinathan's father, and their children, the members of the broader family, Avinathan's friends and representatives of Nvidia, the company where he worked until October 7. The person who came up with the idea back in the very first week was their eldest son, who shortly afterwards was called up to take part in the combat effort in the Gaza Strip, where he served until about two weeks ago.
"We have been standing at the entrance from the third day of the war, every day from seven thirty in the morning until nine thirty at night, apart from Friday and Saturday. Many senior IDF officers, government ministers and cabinet members pass by. Some of them roll down their car window and say, 'We are with you.' Some of them stop for a few minutes, and some even actually park their car on the side and dedicate time for a genuine and meaningful meeting. Yesterday I spoke with the IDF's Director of Military Intelligence, Major General Aharon Haliva, we have spoken with the Director of Shin Bet on a few occasions, with current minister and former Chief of Staff, Gadi Eisenkot, to mention just a few. We have turned the Begin Gate into Avinathan's Gate. Lots of meaningful meetings take place there. Direct meetings with members of the military and politicians, as well as social meetings between the diverse ends of the spectrum. Among those who stand together with us there are representatives of the entire social, political and public spectrum. Regular passers-by also stop to talk to us.
"If it is a day on which a cabinet meeting takes place or there is a heightened sense of a deal that is about to go down, then the Forum calls for a demonstration to be held there and a whole group appears with all the noise, the hustle and bustle with which we have become familiar from the protests on Kaplan Street. The drums, the trumpets, the horns and the megaphones that burst your eardrums. There is a standard operating procedure already in place when they arrive, the security guards at the Kirya close the gate and vehicles refrain from leaving."
Q: And how is the interaction between you and those demonstrations?
"There are activists who have jumped on the bandwagon and are exploiting the situation to continue the wars of the Kaplan Force (responsible for organizing the anti-government protests), and there are families who come, not many, with whom we conduct an extremely refreshing discourse, one that brings people together. Sometimes with the activists too, but not always. I have arrived at one key conclusion from all those meetings – in order to draw people in and bring them closer, talking alone is not sufficient. When you try to bridge the gap between positions based on a process of intellectual inquiry and observation, the main outcome is usually a clash and this tends to generate very little positive or beneficial impact. In order to connect with people, you need to start from the heart, from the most basic human level of who you are, what is troubling and hurting you. And then, when that connection has been forged, it is possible to gradually climb upwards towards world views and outlooks, what you believe in. I have actually seen this happen. I see people who come from a place of genuine concern, those who seek to have a positive influence and are prepared to pay a price for their inner truth. But there are also those who come seeking destruction."
A time for tears
Last week, Ditsa came back from a trip to the USA, where she spoke with an endless number of local communities, she spoke about Avinathan and of her ongoing efforts to secure his release. On the flight back home, she was invited to the cockpit to see the sunrise and she remained with the "wonderful" pilots, as she referred to them, until they landed back in Israel. "That was one of the most amazing experiences, to fly above the rising sun."
Q: But it clearly also embraces a considerable degree of frustration. The whole world is at your feet, and Avinathan, who is only a two-three hour drive from here, is unattainable.
"Yes. Our whole reality at the moment is one of extremes. On the one hand we face the deepest darkness while on the other hand there is an abundance of light and good – good deeds of Israeli citizens and of Jews all over the world, of God Almighty."
On Tu BiShvat they celebrated Avinathan's 31st birthday. "The largest birthday celebration we have ever made for him. On the eve of Tu BiShvat we stood outside the Kirya with lots of posters and balloons that Nvidia prepared. We prepared goody bags along with small packages with dried fruits, and we gave them out to all the cars leaving the base, to anyone passing by, in all several hundred bags. On the morning of his birthday, we gathered together here, the whole family, to take part in a really moving Tu BiShvat seder to commemorate the Jewish 'New Year of the Trees'. This was then followed by a special ceremony for the dedication of a new Torah scroll in Shiloh. Our friend, the amazing Sagi Va'anunu, launched and led a project off his own bat. This was an event that began at four in the afternoon and went on almost until midnight. Here in our home, we completed the writing of the letters of the Torah scroll. This was followed by a wonderful procession to the synagogue, with balloons and good wishes that we released. Everything was planned down to the finest details. Hundreds of people attended and everything ran as smooth as clockwork. The entire settlement was decorated. There were so many people who played a part in the preparations, such a massive investment and so much joy. People whom we had met and acquaintances we made as part of the special, cherished connections that have developed over the last few months also came. Tel Avivians, left-wingers. There was a genuine sense of emotion, of togetherness."
Ditsa talks of her tall, strong son. According to various testimonies, he had a number of opportunities to escape from the terrorists who overran the party, but he stayed with his beloved Noa, "He chose not to leave her behind in the claws of those scum," as his mother puts it, "but as soon as they arrived in the netherworld underground, they separated between them." Some of the women hostages who were released from captivity said that they had met her. According to their testimony, Ditsa recounts, "She doesn't stop talking about Avinathan, she is worried about him and misses him." About a month ago, Hamas published a video clip in which she appears. In contrast, there has not been even a single indication from the hell of Hamas captivity to attest to Avinathan's fate.
"We are constantly living on two different planes. We act here in the physical, natural world, we know that it is imperative to make every effort humanly possible in every way, and yet, at the same time we also live on the level of intangible belief and faith. The combination of these two is the basic formula for life. This combination does not mean that sometimes I am immersed in the physical, natural world and sometimes I am wrapped in the world of belief and faith, but it is rather the constant knowledge that everything that happens is managed by the Creator, and everything is for our good. So that everything that we do is derived from this awareness."
Q: Everything might be for our good, but in the meantime you and your son are undergoing so much pain and suffering.
"I can't say that I don't have any proposals of how to attain that good more efficiently," she smiles, "but after all, as Rabbi Nachman says, that if we were able to comprehend how God works, then we would actually be like him, and consequently, we wouldn't feel a need to serve Him and subjugate ourselves to Him? It is not always possible to understand everything in real time. But in the future, 'our mouths shall be filled with laughter', the laughter of joy and understanding."
Ditsa has currently taken a time out from teaching as she is totally invested in the effort to release Avinathan. "My life is completely different to what it was beforehand. I am living in a state of complete chaos. I have no fixed daily schedule, apart from the overall framework – in the morning until 11 and from 530 in the evening at the Kirya. Having said that, it is this chaos that allows me a considerable degree of freedom. I am free to do whatever I want. And there you have another example of the extremes I was talking about – I am currently in a state of such absolute freedom while Avinathan is imprisoned and he is denied the most basic freedoms of any human being."
During the morning hours, until 11 am, she allows the pain to overcome her, the crying, the tears and the prayers that are born and rise up within her. She lets them take up their time so that for the rest of the day she will be able to concentrate her energy on engaging in action.
Everyone, she says, can do his or her bit. "This war began with Israel's homefront suffering such a brutal blow. Innocent, unarmed people, who were not involved in anything, were hurt so severely in such an extreme manner. But at the same moment this turned all the civilians into fighters. Thank God that our amazing soldiers managed to take control of the situation and now the fighting is taking place inside the Gaza Strip rather than in our territory. But this really is a war of light against darkness of good against evil. Anyone who does a good deed, and everybody has their own opportunity to do good – is a fighter too and helps to bring forward the victory of the light."
The response of Ronen Tzur, the former head of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum: "For her own reasons, Ditsa has chosen to single me out and attack only me from the very beginning of this disaster, and those reasons remain with her. I respect and love dear Ditsa, and I will not argue with the mother of a son who has been kidnapped in the greatest failure and catastrophe in the history of the State of Israel. I will fight for the safe return home of Avinathan along with the rest of the hostages and am sure that they will be grateful for this."
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