Tom Nides will take off from Israel in several weeks for the final time as the US ambassador. He announced his departure several months ago. He simply missed his family too much; he has a Jewish heart beating inside him.
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Despite the US-Israel friction as of late, Nides believes his short tenure was a success. He spoke with Israel Hayom this week to talk about his experience.
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"I can't grade myself, because that would be self-serving. But I think I've done a pretty good job. I was told by the president that we have an unbreakable bond with Israel, 'don't break it on your watch.' So I've got two weeks left, I don't think I've broken it yet. So I think I'm okay. I've articulated the vision of the importance of the bilateral relationship, it's really important to us. I have worked on a whole variety of issues that at this time, beyond the security issues, which is number one, in my view, to try to improve the security, as well as working with three prime ministers in two years. And I think I've been, you know, pretty successful working with all of them. In a time where it ain't easy. Naftali Bennett was the prime minister when I got here. I then worked with Yair Lapid and now I'm working with Netanyahu, I have worked with three Defense Ministers. I've worked with multiple foreign ministers. And I think generally, most people would say I get along with people pretty well. I care about this relationship. I don't always agree. But I don't usually say it in a negative way, or, or an aggravated way. I try to do it in a relatively pleasant way. But it's a huge honor. This job is a huge honor, the American ambassador to Israel."
Q: I want to challenge what you said in the beginning about whether this bond is broken or not. It's been seven months since the new government was sworn in but the prime minister has yet to receive an invitation. When it comes to Iran, there are big differences because you want to push toward those understandings. When it comes to West Bank, Palestinians, we have condemnations every day. And when it comes to Saudi Arabia, there is still no breakthrough. And it appears that China is on the rise while the US is getting weaker. So perhaps the US-Israel relations have not been broken but challenged?
"No. I totally disagree...every relationship has its ups and downs. It's positive, negative. Listen, the reality of this is the relationship with the United States in Israel is rock solid."
The devil is in the details
Nides, 62, had a career in business and politics before becoming an ambassador. He is married to Virginia Carpenter Moseley, who works at CNN as executive vice president of editorial for the network's US operation. The couple has two children, and they are very close to the Democratic establishment, including President Barack Obama and the current White House occupant.
"This has been an unbelievable experience for me. How lucky I am. A little Jewish kid from Minnesota is the ambassador, the most important ally to the State of Israel. Pretty cool. Pretty cool, right? I only wish my parents were allowed to see it," he said in the interview.
Nides was tapped by the Biden administration at the end of 2021 to serve as the ambassador to Israel. For the first several months he lived at a hotel in Jerusalem until a residence was found on Emek Refaim in Jerusalem, making him the first US ambassador to live in the city. The US Embassy Act, which requires the relocation of the embassy to Jerusalem, also stipulates that the ambassador lives in the capital, making him the first to fully implement that part. The rented home is very different than what US ambassadors normally enjoy, and worlds apart from the estate that the US had in Herzliyyah for the ambassador's residence until was sold. "I live better than 99% of people do. At some point, we will build an embassy. and build an appropriate residence for the ambassador."
Q: Where do things stand regarding a permanent US Embassy building? You and your predecessor have talked about it for years.
"We have two sites, right one here. It's coming to head. Months, months, not years. I pushed hard to get this done. I want to get done on my watch."
One of the most anticipated things for Israelis is the Visa Waiver Program, which Israel could become a member of as early as September, Nides explains that there is still no certainty.
"This is complicated. I mean, I hope it happens. I think the government has done what it needed to do to pass legislation, as lots of things that need to get done. You know, at the end of the day, some point in July, hopefully, there'll be a pilot to see how it works [regarding the entry of Palestinian-Americans to Israel].
"The pilot will be for the policy and Americans been able to see they come back and forced to you know, it's complicated. And then by the end of August or early September, the secretary of state and the head of the Department of Homeland Security have to approve it. So I'm hoping I'm not gonna be here, but I'm hoping that it gets done. There's no guarantee okay, there's no guarantee."
Q: Do you know or see any problems that might derail it?
"The devil is in the details we have a memorandum of understanding, it is a massive project. And so I don't know, I think I think it should be okay. But like anything, I'm not going to over-commit and under-deliver. I have worked for almost two years on this since the day I got here."
Could the differences between Israel and the US on settlements and other matters impact it?
I hope not.
Q; You hope but you are not sure?
"I mean, this is what I like to do what I like to tell people: This is for the Israeli people. We do the visa waiver for the Israeli people. It's not for Prime Minister Netanyahu. It was started under Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, and then with Prime Minister Yair Lapid, and then it was Netanyahu. This is not like we are giving a gift to Netanyahu. I mean, yes, he's the prime minister, but this is for the Israeli people."
Q: So why not take any possible linkage off the table?
"I think this will be done on its merits. You know that they [Israelis] qualify, or they don't qualify, either they fulfill the obligations or do not fulfill the obligations. That's the facts. This is a legal thing. This is not politics. We can't use politics. Either the Israelis have fulfilled the obligations of the MOU, or they haven't."
Between Iran and Saudi Arabia
Nides is convinced that he is leaving behind a US-Israel relationship that is on a sound footing.
"Let's step back. Again. Joe Biden came here in July of last year. Got up onto the podium, he looked into the cameras, and said the following thing: ' You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist.' He has it in his kishke (Yiddish for gut) because he cares deeply about their relationship. He not only worked with Prime Minister Bennett and Lapid but he's also known Netanyahu for 40 years. The reality of this is that the relationship of the United States with Israel is rock solid. Let's take the security issue. I think that's very important. One of my biggest surprises is how close our defense department is to the IDF and how close are your intelligence agencies Shin Bet and Mossad are to our CIA? I knew it intellectually. I had no idea in practicality."
Q: Can you give me an example?
"Everyone assumes is this United States doing things for Israel? That's just not true. Yes, we do a lot for Israel. Israel does a lot for the United States in this region, constantly giving us intelligence, constantly helping us toward threats in the Middle East. We're constantly asking Israel for assistance. So this relationship on security is rock solid. And I feel this is just unbelievable...I think the prime minister would say the current prime minister and Lapid and Bennett would say there has been complete transparency with the Israelis vis-a-vis Iran. Joe Biden has been crystal clear. He said he was here. Tony Blinken said was here, Jake Sullivan said it was here that we were not gonna allow Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon."
Q: But the US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said that you wouldn't let Iran field nuclear weapons. Which is something very different.
"He corrected himself. I think. The president speaks for the government. The president I had said he was not going to stand by and let Iran get a nuclear weapon. Last time I checked we did one of the biggest military operations or exercises in the history of the Middle East, a couple of months ago. There have been some rumors that equipments have been moved into the region. There's constant conversation CENTCOM now has Israel. Not only is America engaged in the Middle East, we're a massive player in the Middle East.
Q: I am not sure this is the impression in the region. We see Saudi Arabia getting closer to China. As are other countries.
"The issue around Saudi Arabia, listen, at the end of the day, if there's possible normalization with Saudi Arabia, it's going to come through Washington. And who knows, ultimately, what will happen. But Joe Biden is leaning into that. Did you notice that weeks ago the Secretary of State was in Saudi Arabia, and Jake Sullivan was in Saudi Arabia and all of our team? Again, the US relationship in the Middle East is as strong as ever. And there's a reason why all these countries want a relationship with the US because we're important.
Q: What about a meeting with Biden? We are seven months into Netanyahu's term, but he has yet to have received an invitation.
"It will happen at some point, there's no question about it. When does it happen? I have no idea... The reality is, the president will make a decision, the prime minister will make a decision, on when they'll get together. They know each other."
"Again, President Isaac Herzog, the president of your country is coming in July to speak to a joint meeting of Congress, and he'll meet the president for the 75th anniversary [of Israel's founding]."
Q: So the president will have met Herzog twice within 12 months, but not even once with the old-new prime minister?
"President Biden has probably met with Bibi Netanyahu about 30 times. So I'm not worried about their relationship. I'm not. I mean, there will be a meeting, they will meet in the White House. There'll be a beautiful meeting. It'd be a beautiful conversation. I'm not worried about that. But listen, as you all know, Israel is going through a lot of consternation right now. Judicial reform, and other things. Ultimately, I think everyone wants things to settle down a little bit so the visit doesn't turn into a big, you know, rap about the current events, and we can focus on the big things. One thing that Netanyahu has said over and over again, he wants to focus on the big things. Iran, normalization with Saudi Arabia. That's what he wants to do. All this other stuff is, in my humble view, a distraction. He has his hands on the wheel, as he's told me millions of times, and he wants to focus on big things, and that's what he should be focused on. And that's what we want to focus on.
Q: Netanyahu is expected to visit China and possibly meet President Xi Jinping before meeting President Joe Biden. What is your reaction?
"We don't tell leaders who they can and can't be with. He's a democratic leader. If he wants to go meet with President Xi, he can go meet with President Xi or not, we're not telling people who they should not meet with."
Slowing down the nuclear program
Have Iran and the US reached understandings over the nuclear program?
"There are no understandings. This is completely blown out of proportion. We've said this over and over again, there is no deal on the table. There is no less-for-less deal. It doesn't exist. I mean, would there be at some point, something that we can grab onto? Who knows? But there's nothing. You're not going to wake up tomorrow and read about it. By the way, Israel knows everything we have done and said, if you ask the Israelis, they know exactly what conversations we've had. But there is no deal. We've said this 100 times, there's no deal. Ultimately, the president has made it very clear that he would love a diplomatic solution, or at least to slow the program down. That's true. But there is no deal.
"One thing Joe Biden said when he became president, that – contrary to the previous [Democratic] administration, during the Obama administration, which I was involved in – he was gonna make sure that Israel was never surprised at what we were doing. And I think we fulfilled that commitment to both Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, Prime Minister Yair Lapid, and now Prime Minister Netanyahu and I think they all understand that we'll be totally transparent. Transparent that we're not gonna let Iran get a nuclear weapon, that we obviously are going to try to do plenty of deterrence, which is what the Israelis want us to do, including joint exercises, doing the things that send strong messages. We're doing all of that, which we said we're going to do."
Q: Where do things stand on the possible breakthrough in normalization with Saudi Arabia?
"Joe Biden has given permission to his team, to explore the possibility of doing a deal with Saudi Arabia, who will ultimately I don't know where that will go. But Joe Biden has made that decision. And by the way, he's always we've also been communicating that with the prime minister, and with Strategi Affairs Minister Ron Dermer National Security Advisor Tzachi Hanegbi. They all know that; they were just in Washington. Joe Biden would like to get it done. Will it happen? unsure. I don't know. This can only get done if Biden himself expends a lot of political capital to try to get it done. It's complicated. It's very difficult, but only great things happen only if they are complicated. I think it would be an unbelievable achievement for President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu, but most importantly, for the Jewish people. This will change the face of the region just like the Abraham Accord was a phenomenal success."
Q: What is the main obstacle?
There are a dozen issues. It's complicated. I can I can't get into all the issues. But the reality is is like anything it's very complicated. Most of those roads lead through Washington."
Q: During the Trump presidency the US would condemn settlement activity three or four times a year, but not you condemn Israeli announcements twice a week and loudly.
That's not true. All right. Okay. So that is not true. We've been very clear from the get-go by the way. With Prime Minister Bennett and, and Prime Minister Lapid. and Netanyahu we do not support settlement growth. We've been very clear about that. By the way, either was the position of George Bush's government, it was a position quite frankly, even of Donald Trump's government. ..It has been Joe Biden's position since he's been a senator in the Senate [in the 1970s]."
Q; That may be true, but I can't recall such public condemnations from the State Department as is the case now.
"We should check the tape, as I like to say, but we've been pretty clear about it. The pace of this, because of this government has gotten a little quicker, as you see right. At the beginning of the right at the beginning of the prime ministership, they announced they originally wanted out to 15,000. They dropped it down to 10. And then they did the 10. And then they added back the five...It makes it more and more difficult to ever have a two-state solution. More settlement growth prevents that. So I don't think the volume is going up or down. Our position has been very clear. And that's what our position has been."
Q: So there was no difference between the way that administration treat this new right-wing government and the way you treated the former government?
No. First of all, I don't think that's the case. I mean, I did this with Bennett, too. And Lapid. I mean, there are other issues that have come up in the meantime, which are kind of convoluted,
Q: You mean the religious reform?
A: The judicial reform, some of your ministers are a little bit more aggressive than normal. So So there's, I think it all kind of gets mixed up in the, in the sauce, right? So I think ultimately, our position has been very consistent. My position has been pretty consistent. We do not support settlement growth, and I am on the phone every day trying to get things off the list. Try to see, you know, we got E1 off the list. That was a big deal, right? But then we got, you know, 5000 units at it. So again, I'm just trying to do the best I can. This is not ideological for me, the thing I wake up every day I am just trying to keep things calm. Settlement announcements do not help keep things calm, it may help the government keep its calm. But it certainly doesn't help the bilateral relationship. And that's what I've been trying to work on. And by the way, this position was no different than the Trump administration and the Obama administration. We've got to figure this out. Because we're in this do loop: We complain, you add more settlements, we complain you have more settlements. So we got to figure out a new way of doing this.
Q: Do you have any ideas on how to resolve it?
"No, no, I'll pick up my ideas when I leave."
Q: You meet with settlers but not with right-wing ministers and party representatives like Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich.
"Those guys. Just to be clear. The government is run by the prime minister, I made that clear to the prime minister that he's my interlocutor, The reality of this is I've met with many many MKs. I've been here for two years, you can ask most of them. Some are right-wing, some left-wing. The reality is, as I've said to the prime minister, as it relates to, you know, dealing with the sensitive issues around security economics, I deal directly with the prime minister. So I don't go around and try to run around and try to maneuver this government."
Q: So there is a de facto boycott on their parties.
I don't know if it's a boycott. I just haven't I haven't done it. Because I quite frankly, have such a close relationship with the Prime Minister. I don't need to do it. But I don't boycott anyone.
Q: Why did you stop funding technological initiatives in Judea and Samaria?
"That support was decided on October 15, 2020. Before the November elections. He switched the policy as they were walking out the door. And, you know, we reversed it. I don't think any money was ever expended.
Q: On the day of the Eli terrorist attack, you posted a tweet that essentially compared the murdered Israelis and the terrorists killed by the IDF soldiers during a raid in Jenin. After an hour you posted a correction. What happened there?
"I screwed up. I had just returned from Los Angeles when I got word of the attack. I was shown a draft of a tweet and I signed off on it. But it was a stupid thing to do. Moments later, I saw that Bennett had tried to reach me. I asked him, 'What happened?,' and he said I had screwed up. And so I made sure to immediately issue another tweet [that included a clear condemnation of the terrorist attack]. In no way do I compare terrorists and those who are murdered by terror. You know I have gone to many funerals and visited many bereaved families, including those beyond the Green Line despite the opposition of those in Washington. I will not accept a situation in which I only visit two families of victims from a certain attack but do not go to the third victim's family just 20 minutes from there just because they live across the Green Line. This tweet was the first time that I messed up like this."
Q: Is Biden fit to be president? We have all seen the confusion and his recent fall.
"100%. I don't do politics anymore, because I'm an ambassador. But to be clear. What this president has accomplished in his tenure so far, is beyond remarkable. The economy the unemployment rates, the bills that he passed for infrastructure, and how of care or the massive…even this most recent debate around the budget you know they were having to hold above the debt ceiling. It's unbelievable how he pulled us off. I mean, it was without any insanity...I mean with age comes experience. As it relates to Joe Biden's relationship with the State of Israel, it is rock-solid. Okay. When he got off that airplane, and that July on the tarmac, when went it's the Holocaust Museum and held the hands of those three women for 20 minutes. Crying, tears coming down his eye. That's who Joe Biden is. That's who this guy is so from someone who cares deeply about the bilateral issues with Israel."
Q: Will You go back to business or enter politics?
I'll do a business thing but I'm sure I'll be involved in the campaign.
Q: How do you respond to the weakening support for Israel in some parts of the US Jewish community, particularly in the progressive-Reform camp?
"Like any democratic country, which we are in Israel, right, you're gonna have critics. That's okay. That's okay. That's what a democratic country with democratic values. You have plenty of critics of Israel In Israel, you know, every weekend, okay. There are plenty of people who criticize Israel In Israel. It does, just because you're critical, doesn't mean you don't love someone. I mean, you can have arguments with people all the time doesn't mean, you don't believe the importance of this. Look. The reality is the vast, vast, vast majority of Democrats and Republicans not only support the State of Israel but deeply love the State of Israel."
Q: Including in the Jewish community.
Without question. I just had here in this room Rick Jacobs, who runs the Reform Movement. The one thing I've learned in this job, you got to be open-minded, you got to talk to everyone. You got to understand everyone loves Israel in different ways. The vast, vast majority of people from the Left, and from the Right, care deeply about this relationship and deeply care about this bilateral relationship."
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