At a closed-door conversation former IDF chief Lt. Gen. (res.) Gadi Eizenkot held recently, he warned that if the government's continued bullying continues, he will stop playing nice. After meeting him this week, it seems as though he has all but reached this critical point: the government's actions aimed at overhauling the courts, and the overall impact this could have on other parts of our lives – chiefly security – have had the former general loosen the reins and speak out.
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True to his style, he expresses his thoughts in a deliberate, responsible, and stately manner. You won't hear calls for an uprising or civil disobedience from Eizenkot, nor will he express any inkling of support for draft-dodging or illegal acts. Nevertheless, he minces no words. As far as he is concerned, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a threat to the country's future, its national security, and its economy because he is mortgaging it for the sake of his own narrow political interests. The judicial reform bills, Eizenkot says, will transform Israel and crush the socioeconomic solidarity that has been part of its foundation.
"Israel is now experiencing the most dangerous and combustible reality security-wise in 20 years, but the government is singularly focused on the judicial revolution," he said. "Iran is now on the verge of having uranium enriched to 90% purity, and the Palestinian theater has its own problems in east Jerusalem, and then there is the situation in the north, where Hezbollah has resumed setting up outposts along the border. I keep asking myself: When people in the Coalition look back at this period and ask themselves what they dealt with, what are they going to answer?
Q: The legal overhaul undermines Israel's response to the Iranian nuclear threat?
"There is absolutely no doubt. The enormity of this threat and its seriousness make it imperative that we engage in collaborations with others, particularly with the US. We can talk all we want on how we are our own masters, but in order to get planes up and attack there, and if we want to have intelligence and the backing of the international community for the conflagration that could erupt and that we have enough ammunition on the 21st day of the war – the Americans need to play a key role. They form a central part of our ability to deny Iran a nuclear bomb. Netanyahu announced his priorities when he spoke at the Knesset: preventing Iran's nuclearization, peace with Saudi Arabia, bolstering the economy, and lowering the cost of living. His actions have been in the opposite direction in a very brazen and erroneous way, just because of the judicial reforms."
Q: Do you feel comfortable with having the US get involved with Israeli matters?
"I don't feel comfortable with that, but I can see where it is coming from. The US has shared interests with its partners. For better or for worse, we are special. It is true for the things we receive but also for the criticism we face. They place 3.8 billion dollars here every year, and they view us as their greatest friend in the Middle East. They have sacrificed many things for our relationship and they of course also get benefits in return, but then someone like Simcha Rothman and Bezalel Smotrich tell them, 'Who are you to tell us what to do'."
Q: Could the relationship be hurt?
"I am very concerned about these special relations being hurt. The Americans say it and they mean it. If they conclude that Israel is changing its character and that it is dismissing them, this will have an impact on their willingness to support us on the international stage and perhaps in the collaboration that is critical for our national security."
Eizenkot is well aware that the protest has seeped into the military ranks and says it is unacceptable to have soldiers refuse to show up for reserve duty "at this point", although he says he understands the growing sense of frustration. "When you see that they give funding to yeshiva students and say that half of the population will study Torah while the other half will serve in the military, and when you see those who serve as not been honored as much and that the government is pursuing a new bill that would not require conscription, I am very worried."
Q: What about the slew of uses of military ranks and letters by former IDF officials?
"I was also against using ranks and positions for political purposes when I was chief of staff. But on the other hand, you cannot separate military service from the overall Israeli experience and the fact that this is part of the conversation. And yes, I look and say that it is just inconceivable to have a situation where Israeli society elects someone who dodged the draft and another one who semi-dodged the draft. The third served a kashrut supervisor and they run our lives."
Q: But this is what voters wanted.
"Yes, and I accept this however painful this may be. Some of those elected are unfit to carry out their job. This is a big roll of the dice on our lives and our country."
Q: Let's get back to the threats people are making that they would not serve. What's your response?
"That is against the rules of the game. We built a state, we are fighting over it. We have to thwart the judicial reforms and not give up so easily. I always give the 2005 Disengagement Plan as an example. Hundreds of thousands of people felt the same way and they blocked roads and demonstrated until they were dragged by the security forces. But they ultimately showed up for duty and did not leave Israel. Yes, you might claim that they were religious and they a different group, but the bottom line is that we have a state and we fight over it, on our collective home."
Q: What about the calls for a civil uprising?
"You won't hear that from me. We should exhaust every step that is allowed in a democracy to its full potential. But steps taken by conscientious objectors are something that everyone decides on a personal level, with a willingness to pay a personal price."
Q: What about the protesters who take tanks from memorials?
"These are just gimmicks but I prefer those gimmicks over taking 700 liters of gasoline in order to set cars ablaze on the Ayalon Highway like Smotrich has been accused of trying to do during the Disengagement Plan."
Q: There are quite a few former security officials leading the protest movement. A lot of people have questioned whether you and others from the defense establishment have the qualifications to assess the judicial reforms.
"Our country belongs to all of us on an equal measure. If you serve for dozens of years and put your life in harm's way, you do so because you want the country to be better. I have asked myself many times why I had to go through all this ordeal, and why I entered politics. The answer is that while I may be disgruntled today, I would have been several times more had I stayed at home. People want to do something and defend what they believe in; that is why when people like Dudi Amsalem and others call protesters privileged and anarchists, that is just pure rubbish. The protesters are some of the finest people of this country."
Q: How can you explain the fact that all the former IDF chiefs and former directors of the Shin Bet and Mossad are against the reform?
"This is due to their deep understanding of Israel's security needs. Israel is facing several overarching threats – Iran, the Palestinians, Lebanon – but it has one enormous challenge and that is to ensure we maintain the solidarity we have had in all the past wars and during the coronavirus pandemic. I worry that this could be eroded. People are willing to make sacrifices for what they believe in, and if there is a feeling that one side is living off the other, it will be terrible."
A step backward
Eizenkot says that until recently he was in favor of striking a compromise and engaging in dialogue, believing that the plan offered by State Party leader Benny Gantz was the right one: halting the legislation and then talking. He was also in favor of President Isaac Herzog's proposals. "I was wrong; there is no one to talk to," he now says. "Unlike other people, there is no bad blood between Netanyahu and myself. I had a good rapport with him (as IDF chief of staff – Y.L). If you were to ask me several months ago if there is a constitutional revolution or a deep judicial reform I would have struggled to give you a definite answer. But now, having been in the Kמesset for several months, there is no question."
Q: Explain.
"Those who think that Israel has three different branches of government are wrong. There is only one branch, the government, with the Knesset folded into it. You can pass in the Knesset anything you want, you can even make your pet defense minister. Once you tell your coalition to vote for something, everyone votes for it and passes it. Apart from bidding for time, the Opposition can't do much to impact things, especially when it comes to the language of the bills.
"An independent judiciary, however flawed, is the only thing that's left in the system of checks and balances. As soon as the government incorporates it and takes over the judges' appointment mechanism, Israel would no longer have separation of powers. Those who don't get it don't appreciate the scale of what Israel is going through. That is why we need to take a step back and ask what our goal is. If our collective goal is to have a democratic and Jewish state that is inspired by the Israeli Declaration of Independence – which is what 70-80% of the public agrees on – that it would be a mistake to engage in talks now, because there is no one to talk to, unfortunately."
Q: So what should be done?
"The protest movement should be more active. It should be on the streets, in the Knesset, in the business sector, with common sense, so that people internalize that they are part of this."
Q: What exactly does being active mean? Moving investments out of Israel?
"As a patriot, I have a hard time embracing divestment from Israel, and I have also come out against violence, bloodshed, and insubordination. But where I come from, there is a thing called a legal order and a profoundly illegal order. We always tell young IDF conscripts that if they are told to carry out a profoundly illegal order not only do they have the right to refuse – they have a duty. We are not there yet, this line has not been crossed, but is it possible? It is."
Q: What is the red line as far as you are concerned?
"The taking over of the judiciary by the government."
Q: And then what?
"Then we can have people protest on a personal level like not paying taxes, even though they know full well they would have to pay a price by being investigated by police. We are not there yet, and I disavowed former IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Yair Golan to stage a civilian insurgency, but if we reach a dictatorship, I trust Israelis would do the right thing."
Q: Dictatorship?
"Passing those bills would be a near-deadly blow to Israel's democracy. It won't be the end of Israel, but Israel will have been transformed. We mark several anniversaries this year: 100 years since Ze'ev Jabotinsky Iron Wall, 75 years since Israel's founding, 50 years since the Yom Kippur War, and 50 years since the death of David Ben-Gurion. Meanwhile, Israel is going in a direction that defies logic."
Eizenkot believes that Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara was wrong when she told Netanyahu that he was legally barred from getting involved in the judicial reform due to a conflict of interest (the concern is that he could use this reform to impact the outcome of his ongoing trial). "He is responsible for Israel's national security, and now our national security is threatened. He can't be shed this responsibility; he must own it," Eizenkot says.
Q: What are his motives?
"To make his base as wide as possible, he decided not to take a stand in the many hot-button issues facing Israeli society. As a result, he has managed to buy time for the immediate future but mortgaged Israel's future. He knows that a binational state is a disaster and the end of the Zionist enterprise. He knows full well that what happens these days in east Jerusalem is a walk in the park compared to what could happen and he knows what will happen to the IDF conscription rate if the secular and national religious school system shrinks. What's driving him? He prefers his narrow political interest over the state's; he prefers to deal with his personal travails.
Q: All of what you said is not new, and yet the public voted for him.
"The public voted for this government and this decision should be honored. I think the attorney general is wrong when she allows him to run away from his responsibilities by prohibiting his engagement in the constitutional revolution. The two people who have been leading this reform effort are Yariv Levin and Simcha Rothman. They have run amok and there is no chance of striking a compromise with them. In my opinion, the key is in Netanyahu's hands, he must realize that he is rolling the dice on Israel's future. He is no longer just making calculated risks where he could continue to be at the helm, he is simply betting the farm.
Q: Betting the farm?
"In no uncertain terms. He has no clue what the consequences of those actions are going to be on Israeli society, on our solidarity, on the willingness of the individual to risk their lives for the country. I look at his Diplomatic-Security Cabinet and ask myself. Some of those there did not serve in the IDF, whose sons don't serve. Check whom among the sons of the cabinet carry out reserve duty – only Defense Minister Yoav Gallant's son. Some of the people there barely have the legitimacy to send soldiers to make the ultimate sacrifice."
"And security is only one component. Look at what is happening in the economy. No one knows what will happen here in the near future as a result of these measures. Look at what has been happening to Israel's international standing. And most troubling is the social impact. Look at how some of the ministers are talking about segments of the population, about how they will send opponents to prison. They call themselves the national camp, it's just surreal. Shas is the national camp? United Torah Judaism? Each and every one of the protesters is more nationally oriented than the 50% of the national camp."
Q: So Eizenkot the Moroccan feels insulted by Dudi Amsalem the Moroccan?
"You can't ignore the fact that even after 75 years, there are entire segments of the population living in great disparities, and on the other hand, the thing called the state of Israel is great. But Amsalem and his friends in the government have been in power now for decades. Why haven't they channeled 25% of the education budget to boost education in disadvantaged communities? Why haven't they ensured that Kiryat Shmonah and Eilat get proper infrastructure projects? My four nephews lived in Eilat until recently; now they all live in Tel Aviv, and their father has followed suit because they had no future in Eilat. There is a great gap between Netanyahu's talk and his actions. But to the public I say – despite the sense of discrimination, go and excel. Don't whine, excel."
Weak spot
Eizenkot believes that National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir has been reckless in his conduct and putting Israel's security under threat. "He believes the world can be run from TikTok and the virtual media world. He talks about denying prisoners baked goods and showers, making him the butt of jokes. This doesn't add anything to our security." He says that Ben-Gvir must sit and learn what the Israel Police is all about and what the situation is on the ground, because "his conduct has been undermining the police. People want to be part of a body that is important and receives recognition, where one feels appreciated and there are good people; not in an organization that is beaten down."
But Eizenkot is more concerned over Smotrich's conduct. He calls him "an ideological man, and also a man who writes – something I very much appreciate." Eizenkot recalls that Smotrich came up with the "decisive victory plan", which includes five tenets: expanding settlements so that the Israeli and Palestinians are inextricably linked; taking over the Civil Administration and later disbanding it; dismantling the Palestinian Authority and restoring the military rule over Judea and Samaria; pressuring the Palestinian population so that most of it leaves; and granting citizenship to those who remain, including having them join the military (just like the Druze in Israel).
"This plan is delusional, messianic, fatalistic, and divorced from reality," Eizenkot says. "The problem is that Smotrich has already begun implementing it on the ground. Phases 1 and 2 are already underway as far as he is concerned. I don't blame him; I blame Netanyahu, who has let this madness continue and has even made him finance minister. So he can take the military and defense budget hostage."
Eizenkot blames the Kohelet Policy Forum for part of this situation, saying its influence is "bad" and that it is clearly manifested in this pending legislation. "Levin and Rothman feel comfortable enough to ignore the legal counsel of the Knesset and the government and use their own experts to pass the legislation even though they don't have any responsibility," Eizenkot said, noting that this extends to security matters. "I understand this field more than them, and I can tell you that they are delusions; they lack any understanding of the national security challenges Israel faces, and they are leading Israel to a catastrophe."
"He knows full well. About a week ago, in the dead of the night, the Knesset deliberated the bill on reversing the Disengagement Plan. The original bill includes a return to the Gaza Strip, and then Likud MK Yuli Edelstein goes up to the lectern and says that it actually does not, but immediately afterward an Otzma Yehudit MK says it does, which if true would require that the IDF launch a full-fledged attack on the Gaza Strip. This is delusional. But who didn't attend the debate? Netanyahu. This sends the message that everything is just one big charade.
Q: How do you fight the government when the opposition is plagued with infighting and its leaders are not on speaking terms?
"This is indeed our soft spot and our failure, that we have not been able to act in a united way and coordinate policy. The role of the opposition, as far as I am concerned, is to serve Israel's interests even as we create an alternative government and topple the incumbents as fast as possible because it has been inflicting harm on Israel. We have to be with answers, not just pose question marks. We have to say not just why they are bad but also where we should go. We have to make Israelis ask which leaders they want to have – those who have not served in the military and abided by the law or those who are going to look after younger generations?"
Q: And how is the Opposition going to do this with its split leadership and multiple egos?
"It must do so, there is no choice. We have to overcome our egos, to see that the Opposition leader exerts his clout and lead, and also to give room for all the parties to contribute their fair share."
Q: What if the Coalition approaches and offers to freeze the legislation and give the boot to Ben Gvir and Smotrich? Will you enter the government?
"We are willing to cooperate with the state. Whenever Netanyahu makes the right decision for the state, he will find very responsible people on our end. This is how we have always acted."
Q: But what about joining the coalition?
"That is currently not on the table, and I don't see how it could happen in the future. We are not going to creep into the government. I know there are some who want that to happen, and there are some who are certain it will and that as soon as we get a wink, we would just hop right inside. I would like to remind everyone that Gantz was offered a rotating premiership a year ago [by Netanyahu] and he refused. I assume that he would do the same in the future."
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