Just like the rest of the Opposition, former Finance Minister and Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor Lieberman believes that there could be no negotiations with the Coalition unless it freezes the judicial legislation immediately.
Follow Israel Hayom on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
In an interview with Israel Hayom, he said that nevertheless some changes need to be made to the system and presented his own outline for the first time. He also touched on the security situation, blamed the new government for the recent wave of terror attacks and explained why he did not fulfill some of his electoral promises while in the previous government.
Q: Do you support President Isaac Herzog's plan to find a compromise?
"I heard [Justice Minister] Yariv Levin's answer. He wants to talk when there is a loaded gun on the table. Only after the first reading is out of the question. We will agree to talk when they are really ready to talk and not to waste time. It's all an attempt to mislead the public. There is no intention there to talk or to compromise, there is an attempt to weaken the opposition."
Q: We still have a few weeks until the bill's first reading, why not hold talks in the meantime?
"Unless the legislation is completely stopped, I don't want to negotiate, to give them legitimacy for the move, which is mainly to save" Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is currently being tried on corruption charges and Sephardi ultra-Orthodox Shas party leader Aryeh] Deri, who was disqualified from serving as minister due to a previous tax fraud conviction. "We are in favor of a thorough reform to the judicial system, not patchwork."
Q: So what would you propose?
"We support establishing a constitutional court that will only discuss laws. The Supreme Court should not discuss laws at all, it has a lot on its plate anyway. This is how it works in most of the enlightened world. A constitutional court will also be able to deal with basic laws. If I remember correctly, the last time the United States changed a basic law was 30 years ago. By us, basic laws are just called like that, but are changed every morning.
"We are also in favor of establishing a constitution. I submitted a bill for a constitution, for the establishment of a constitutional court. There had been proposals for a constitution in the past by Professor [Uriel] Reichman, or [Yohanan] Bader. There is a need for complete reform and we will fight for it. An override clause with a majority of 70 Knesset members. The current format of the committee for the appointment of judges is not bad. The president's outline [for compromise] has many problems. The time has come that after 75 years, decisions in Israel should be made based on a constitution.
"There is no doubt that there is a vacuum and the Supreme Court gets involved in a lot of matters. [Former High Court President Aharon] Barak was wrong and misled us. He said that the basic laws were enough and no constitution was needed, but the basic laws are not resistant to any coalition. When we were in power, we forwarded a proposal for a constitutional court, but Barak fought and prevented it because he wanted to be the one to deal with legislation.
Q: Some say that protesters against the reform have crossed a line. What do you think?
"Any call to violence should be condemned. There's enough damage being done to our national resilience already. Big moves [such as the proposed judicial reform] always require a broad consensus. What is the difference between the ]1993] Oslo Accords, which tore the nation apart, and the peace treaties with Jordan [in 1994] or Egypt [in 1978]? The Oslo Accords was passed by barely a majority, while the agreement with Egypt was approved by over 100 lawmakers." This time too, the government is looking to pass the bill by a weak majority.
Q: How about Tel Aviv Mayor Ron Huldai telling protesters that "dictatorships only become democracies again with bloodshed"? Did that not cross a line? Or Yesh Atid MK Yorai Lahav Hertzanu jumping over the table during a hearing on the judicial reform to threaten a Coalition member?
"A few people behaved and expressed themselves in an irresponsible manner, and we are against that. I am also against insulting the Knesset and misbehaving within its walls. We will not participate in voting on this either, we do not want to give them legitimacy. This is an illegitimate move."
Q: In 2009, the Movement for Quality Government in Israel petitioned against your appointment as foreign minister while you were under a criminal investigation, to which you responded by saying that the electorate was stronger than the petitioners. How was that different from the current case of Deri, who was elected by the public but was vetoed from being appointed minister by the Supreme Court?
"It's different in that I was not indicted. As soon as an indictment was filed against me, I resigned. I don't want to get into this subject, it's Netanyahu's to deal with. We are all obligated by the Supreme Court ruling even if we disagree."
Q: As a former finance minister yourself, what do you think about the claims of the judicial reform potentially harming Israel's economy?
"Every successful business is based on a decent legal system that people trust. It is not for nothing that the largest financial entities in the world have issued a warning" in this regard.
Q: Would you say current Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich is doing the right thing?
"It's hard to say until I see the finalized budget and the Economic Arrangements Law. I prepared it in June 2022, but the [Bennett-Lapid] government collapsed. The current one is 90% based on what I did, but we'll see, the devil is in the details. But the price of chicken jumped by 45% this week, so someone fell asleep while on duty."
Q: You also criticized the Netanyahu government for the current wave of terrorism, but there were also attacks during the previous government.
"This government has nothing to do with the Right. The source of terrorism is the Hamas terror group in the Gaza Strip. They [the new government] have been in power for a month and a half, [and it's been] 27 rockets, ten killed, 15 wounded, Hamas praises every attack. All the inspiration comes from the Gaza Strip and Netanyahu does nothing. He agreed to the rules of the game, Hamas can initiate and inspire terror attacks in Israel as long as there is peace in Gaza. We need to return to targeted threats and stop the flow of cash to Hamas. They are also the Right that yet again did not raze Khan al-Ahmar.
Q: But your government too did not stop the cash flow to Hamas, did not make targeted threats and did not raze Khan al-Ahmar.
"We said in advance that ours was a government of change. We started off without a common security denominator, we went for social and economic issues, we engaged in the art of the possible. This government promised, but did not deliver. This wave of terrorism is because of the government's conduct with Hamas, the terror group is picking up on the weakness. The flow of money to Hamas in the previous government was unfortunately based on an agreement that already existed, which is supposed to expire this April, and I see that Netanyahu is already sending emissaries to Qatar to renew it. He also asked for a four-month extension for the evacuation of Khan al-Ahmar, because that is exactly until after the budget."
Q: Did you receive proposals to join the current government?
"In no shape or form would I agree to this. I did not receive such proposals. During the coalition negotiations I did, and turned it down. I don't think they [the new government] will last that long."
Subscribe to Israel Hayom's daily newsletter and never miss our top stories!
