We met just a stone's throw away from the Jerusalem Theater, in an old, but recently renovated building, which was extremely warm and inviting in view of the biting cold Jerusalem winter air outside. The instructions I received on arriving at the nearby square were crystal clear: "For the Fund for Zionist Leadership in Israel turn right, for the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) turn left." I turned right and entered the building. This is how I began the interview with the Diaspora Affairs and Social Equality Minister Amichai Chikli.
Follow Israel Hayom on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
One month after entering office, Chikli is contending with one of the greatest challenges in the current government – the need to explain to Diaspora Jewry the government's actions, above all the judicial reform and the desire to change the "grandchild clause" in the Law of Return. The very person who epitomized rebelliousness in the previous Knesset, who opposed every single act of the "government of change", is now precisely the one charged with explaining to the Jewish world what form the State of Israel will take on in the future.
"This gives me a sense of immense responsibility, a feeling that from now on, in any sphere relating to me, I can point an accusatory finger at only one person, and that is me, of course. These are topics that I had much to say about in the past, and now it's squarely in my court," says Chikli.
Following the formation of the government, many people within Diaspora Jewry voiced significant concern with regard to what steps it was about to take, mainly in view of statements on issues of religion and state, which for the moment have been somewhat overshadowed by the judicial reform and the desire to amend the Law of Return so that grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Jews will not be able to automatically make aliyah to Israel. Chikli tells of heated meetings he has held with senior figures in the Jewish world. "I came across concern, chiefly from people who are more identified with the liberal-progressive approach. I understand their concern, but I really think that it is mainly due to a considerable amount of disinformation. A political campaign of the opposition that has crossed a red line.
"I cannot remember a single situation in which the Opposition has ever recruited forces from Diaspora Jewry against the government. This is contemptuous. Instead of enlisting their help in the fight against Iran's nuclear program, they are recruiting them to take part in a political argument between the Right and the Left. Having said that, these senior figures are no fools and quickly identify that there is 'much ado about nothing' with numerous false alarms regarding the end of democracy and a regime coup – statements that could be no further from the truth."
Q: In the past, there have been people who warned of a potential rift with Diaspora Jewry. Do you feel that such a rift exists?
"I have met with a number of important figures within Diaspora Jewry and I don't feel that there is any such rift. Some sectors are worried, but I believe that we can solve the disputes. I look at US Jewry and fully understand that one of the most important tasks is to preserve the strong bond that keeps them all together. It is an extremely complex task to keep this people together."
Q: The anger expressed by many Jews results, among others, from the attitude of certain members of the government, your colleagues, pertaining to the Western Wall Outline. Don't Reform and Conservative Jews deserve a place too at the Western Wall?
"I don't look at it from the perspective of one faction or another, but from a much broader point of view. The Western Wall Plaza should remain unchanged. There is a partition, there is room for prayer, and this is how it should remain. At the same time, there is the Ezrat Israel plaza (the non-Orthodox prayer area designated for egalitarian prayer), and this should enable a couple visiting Jerusalem with their children to come and place a note in the Wall. It doesn't have to be considered a major incident. A family should not have to split up into two halves in order to place a note in the Wall. Currently, there is no access to the Wall in the Ezrat Israel [the egalitarian section south of the main plaza] and I am in favor of regulating this issue. As far as I am concerned, the arrangement reached is in the right direction and is most appropriate."
The Diaspora affairs minister is also working towards attaining broad consensus and dialogue on another issue, currently on the agenda, which is even more of a powder keg – the "grandchild clause". Israel Hayom recently published that over the course of the last year, a record was broken in the number of new immigrants coming to Israel who are not Jews. This adds to the figures based on data from Israel's CBS (Central Bureau of Statistics), according to which more than 70% of new immigrants making aliyah to Israel under the Law of Return are not halachic Jews.
"We are in need of urgent amendments", says Chikli in an attempt to clarify his position. "An individual who is not Jewish, and whose link to Israel is via his grandfather or even his great-grandfather, should not automatically be granted citizenship. This issue is currently completely wide-open, and the State of Israel is entitled to request that an individual, who does not adhere to a Jewish way of life in any form, to undergo an orderly process to make aliyah. We are currently facing a severe problem and many people who shouldn't be entering Israel are doing so. Forty percent of them leave after receiving the economic benefits associated with making Aliyah. It is clear that somebody who has strong Jewish roots enjoys a completely different status. The State of Israel has the right to examine whether a person seeking to come and live in Israel because his grandfather was Jewish, wants to be a part of the Jewish people, and perhaps even undergo a conversion process if he is coming to live here for good or for a shorter period. The figures require us to invest a serious effort in addressing this issue. This is not a game.
"I am looking to advance this issue based on consensus as it genuinely is a complex matter. I aspire to make the requisite amendments to the grandfather clause from a national perspective but also based on dialogue and consensus. As far as I am concerned, the idea put forward by the President to convene a committee to work on these amendments is most welcome, and we shall of course ensure that representatives of Diaspora Jewry are also included on such a committee. It is important to respect them and to listen to them. I believe that an orderly process needs to be set in motion, just as you receive a visa for a number of countries so that somebody who has no direct link to Israel can make aliyah."
"What are you on about?"
While Chikli is in favor of dialogue with the Diaspora on the grandchild clause he is categorically opposed to this when it comes to the judicial reform which he fervently supports. "In 24 out of the 38 member states of the OECD, it is the political leadership that appoints the highest legal instance, and in the US the president appoints the Supreme Court judges subject to a majority in the Senate – a conservative president appoints conservative judges and vice versa. We are simply taking a further step toward what happens in the US and this redressing of the balance is occurring as a result of the change of government.
"It is impossible to detach the court from political issues, such as Judea and Samaria, religion and state, refugees, etc.; therefore, the balance must emanate from the fact that different governments appoint different judges. When you look at the current composition of the Supreme Court in Israel – it represents a rather restricted range of views from Meretz to the Blue and White party, and even so it does not even fully take in all of the positions in this part of the political spectrum. I really do not think that the judicial reform is going too far on this issue. Of all the OECD member states, only in Turkey and Greece do the judges appoint themselves.
"I have had meetings with senior Diaspora Jewry figures who have expressed concern over the "overriding clause" but the issue of the overriding clause was implemented in the Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation, by none other than former President of the Supreme Court, Aharon Barak himself. At the state level in the US, the judges themselves are selected to serve based on elections. Israel is progressing towards adopting the US model, and this is a welcome step forward. If anybody has an objection to the idea of the overriding clause, they should address their reservations to Aharon Barak."
The Diaspora minister also claims that the method of appointing the attorney general also needs to be addressed and amended. "In western states, it is simply not acceptable that the power of the Attorney General supersedes that of the ministers. The perception of the courts as the gatekeepers of democracy developed here as a supplement to the judicial reform that occurred in Israel during the 1990s, and I am happy that I have the right to put an end to this bizarre anomaly. Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara is living proof of the need for such an amendment. When serving under a left-leaning government she was as quiet as a mouse. I don't remember her uttering a sound when the Pegasus spyware scandal erupted, during the Gilboa Prison guard pimping affair, or when, on the eve of the elections, former Supreme Court Justice Menachem "Menny" Mazuz, sought to become appointed as chair of the advisory committee for the appointment of senior officials. And what a surprise, suddenly, now, when a right-wing government is formed, she magically springs to life."
Q: Yet, it is still impossible to ignore the claim that if this was a political appointee, their word would be void of any value.
"I have no problem with the fact that this does not have to be a political appointee, but it should be crystal clear that they provide purely non-binding recommendations and that it should be possible to fire a legal counsel under special circumstances. It is unacceptable that a legal counsel is not prepared to represent the minister's position. This is a situation in which you need to remove that legal counsel from their position. You don't want to represent the minister's position? Fine, then go home."
Q: There are some extremely senior individuals voicing opposition to the judicial reform, referring to it in extremely harsh terms.
"All the hysteria and talk about a regime coup and the end of democracy as we know it is utterly baseless and completely irresponsible. In complete contrast to the outgoing government, which was formed under false pretenses and by stealing people's votes, this is a legitimate government with a majority of 64 MKs and mass popular support. This clearly might spook certain people. There is an entire section of the left wing that has become hysterical and is unable to act rationally. You hear people like former Prime Minister Ehud Barak who are beginning to stutter and speak nonsense about civil unrest. Excuse me, but what are you on about?"
"Even at the time of the Oslo Accords and Israel's unilateral evacuation of the Gush Katif settlements, the senior right-wing leadership never talked in these terms. Maybe on the radical fringes of the right, but not the senior leadership. Some of the leaders of the current protest have explicitly stated that the people might well have made their choice in the ballot box, but they are wrong. They don't regard their vote as being equal to that of Biton from Beit She'an or Segal from Ofra, they regard themselves as being the lords and masters of this land. These are people who come from very specific areas within the population. It is their right and their duty to express their opinion, but it is important to note that there is a considerable degree of patronage and a lack of willingness to accept the fact that there are other voices and communities of citizens with equal rights."
The method: shaming
In early February, Chikli presented a summary report on antisemitism for 2022 highlighting a significant rise in the scope of the new antisemitism, namely anti-Zionism and anti-Israelism.
"Hand in hand with a decline in the scope of antisemitism around the world, an increase in antisemitism in the US was recorded. This week there was an incident involving a petrol bomb being thrown at a synagogue in New Jersey, and antisemitic graffiti is appearing on campuses along with swastikas. There is cause for concern. We are currently facing a very dire situation entailing genuine danger to the security and safety of Israelis and Jews in the US. The Ruderman Foundation recently conducted a survey in which it emerged that 90% of American Jews are concerned with the sharp increase in antisemitism in the United States. More than 40% experienced an antisemitic incident.
"The situation on campus is most problematic. 65 percent of the lecturers in political science and Middle East studies faculties think that Israel is an apartheid state, and a quarter of the students believe this to be true. One of the most important issues here is the need to adopt a completely different approach.
"To date, the State of Israel has been dealing with hasbara or public diplomacy, but I believe that this is an extremely feeble term. No single country in the world has a Ministry of Public Diplomacy, we don't need to explain anything. These are 'brand awareness' statements to the effect that Israel has a right to defend itself. This is obvious. So far we have been playing on our half of the pitch, and the goal should be to shift the play to the other half of the pitch.
The Diaspora minister is referring here, among others, to the special report published recently by his ministry, containing information on the deadly terrorist attack in the northern Jerusalem neighborhood of Neve Ya'akov, which was disseminated to organizations dealing with this issue and to dozens of Israeli embassies worldwide. "As far as I am concerned this is batash – a Hebrew military acronym referring to routine security activity – and this is exactly how we are going to work. We intend to publish a rating of the most antisemitic campuses in the US. Shaming for those institutions that promote antisemitic stances, where Jewish students feel uncomfortable." Among others, this new report, that was first exposed in Israel Hayom, differentiates between the Arab world and the PA (Palestinian Authority), uncovering the severe incitement being led by the PA against Israel, alongside support by the EU for entities that in practice are involved in putting forward antisemitic viewpoints.
"The PA is the most antisemitic state entity in the entire world. Some 93% of the public there adhere to antisemitic viewpoints. This is an appalling statistic. The PA is the focal point for the dissemination of the new antisemitism, namely: denial of Israel's right to exist, demonization and comparing it to the Nazi regime, accusing it of ethnic cleansing, etc. The Fatah newspaper features caricatures that would not put Der Stürmer to shame. They lead virulent incitement against the State of Israel and the Jewish people. Only Iran, perhaps, compares with the PA in terms of the intensity of its anti-Jewish hatred.
"The European Union provides a clear contribution to promoting campaigns against the State of Israel. While the official declarations opposed defining Israel as an apartheid state and support its right to self-defense, there is a dramatic disparity between them and the actual activity adopted by it. The EU finances dozens of organizations, including those that refer to Israel as an apartheid state and call on the US to put an end to its military aid to Israel. We addressed the EU with a request to understand whether these actions are conducted with its awareness, whether the decision-makers are aware of the volume of funds that are transferred to organizations of this kind.
"As far as I am concerned, the watershed on this issue is the Oslo Accords, which represent the State of Israel's most severe strategic disaster, equivalent only in terms of its severity to the surprise attack that set in motion the Yom Kippur War back in 1973. Since then, the State of Israel's position has been seriously undermined, and there are more and more voices identifying the State of Israel with apartheid and other similar bizarre claims."
"Gaining a stronger grip"
Chikli thinks that the policymakers in Israel should change the state of mind pertaining to our relations with the Palestinians. "It is about time that we address the question of the long-term alternatives, and I am not sure that the Palestinian Authority, in its current format, is relevant to the future of the region. With sufficient imagination, boldness, and dedication it is possible to find alternative options, starting with Dr. Mordechai Kedar's proposed 'Palestinian Emirates Plan', and I wouldn't take the Jordanian option off the table either."
Q: So what is the solution for Judea and Samaria? Sovereignty?
"It is the Palestinian Authority that is currently imposing sovereignty on the ground, as part of a strategic partnership bankrolled by the EU with hundreds of millions of euros, operating in Area C as if it belonged to it while trampling Israel's sovereignty there underfoot and ignoring Israel's security and national interests, as well as the State of Israel's profound historical link to these areas of its homeland.
"It is happening at Tel Aroma, a Hasmonean fortress in Samaria on the remains of which a mosque was built in memory of the 'shahidim'; on Mount Ebal, which has already been damaged and on which an entire residential neighborhood has been planned; and in numerous other locations too. During the weekly government meeting, I recommended to the prime minister that he should announce a state of emergency on the damage to sites of global heritage and to annex those areas to Area C, in order to protect historic sites that have no substitute."
Q: Having said all that, do you support imposing sovereignty throughout Judea & Samaria?
"As I see it, declarations are less important. The really important issue here is gaining a stronger grip over the territory via the settlement enterprise and expansion of the settlement blocs, alongside an all-out war on the Palestinian efforts to take over Area C, by the methodical dumping of waste into the streams, the illegal quarries, burning refuse, and the charcoal kiln pollution. There is a genuine need for urgent action to be taken."
Chikli also serves as the minister for social equality, and as such is in charge of the planning and oversight in Israel's Arab population. According to him, the problems in Judea & Samaria are the root cause of the unequivocal radicalization among the Bedouins in the Negev.
"There are more than 300,000 Bedouin living in the Negev, of which 25,000 families live in villages of unauthorized building, with no connection to the most basic infrastructure. Polygamy is rife among this population too and this often involves the spread of Palestinian nationalism as a result of Palestinian women originating from villages in Judea and Samaria marrying into Bedouin society. The majority of violent incidents that have included elements of terrorism have been carried out by the sons of women who have come into Bedouin society from the PA. Sons of Palestinian mothers tend to be involved four times more in terrorist activity than the rest of the local Bedouin population, and so the problematic issue of polygamy is at the top of the agenda.
"We need to effect a change in the financial benefits so that they are granted according to the father and not the mother, as currently importing women from the PA is a real business, as they receive national insurance, allowances, and even plots of land. There is also a phenomenon of forging divorce papers in order to define the mother as a one-parent family and thus gain relevant benefits. We need to put a stop to this, and to do so quickly."
Subscribe to Israel Hayom's daily newsletter and never miss our top stories!
