Last week, American negotiator Amos Hochstein was traveling between Beirut and Jerusalem in an attempt to solve the dispute over the Israel-Lebanon maritime border. The practical aspect of the disagreement is who will wind up with ownership of the natural gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean. Hochstein rolled out a new proposal that reportedly brought the two sides closer together, trying to reach an agreement before work on the Karish field begins in September.
Follow Israel Hayom on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Energy Minister Karine Elharrar (Yesh Atid) thinks that the crisis between Israel and Lebanon will be resolved, and the latest incident won't lead to an escalation of tension.
"We submitted a new proposal, which I think is a good one. It's a proposal that will make Lebanon a gas producer, which is an event. This is a country with a deep economic crisis, an insane energy crisis – people there have three or four hours of electricity a day. This could change their situation," Elharrar tells Israel Hayom.
Q: It will take years.
"It will take years in any case. But it's the difference between remaining in the current crappy situation, or a better future. If I were in charge of Lebanon, I'd go with the better future."
Elharrar rejects claims by Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah that Israel is trying to hurt Lebanon and strip it of its rights.
"We can try to look for where we're being screwed, and we can come to negotiations willingly, like Israel did. In the end, they have a big interest in it. This is a golden opportunity to solve the dispute over the maritime border, and Lebanon can come out of it with energy at a time of a global energy crisis. The proposal we submitted is good, constructive, and moves toward a solution. I really hope the other side understands that."
Q: In recent weeks, some in Israel were saying that Israel was the one who gave into pressure and threats from Hezbollah, and could wind up forgoing territory that is worth money.
"Hezbollah always makes threats, it's nothing new. We are in negotiations with the government of Lebanon, and no other entity. In the end, the goal is to end the dispute over the maritime border. I think that it's in Lebanon's interests, too, as well as the entire region. Stability in the region is positive for everybody."
Q: The question is whether the Lebanese government can supply the goods.
"There's a reason the negotiations are being mediated by the Americans."
Q: Is it right for a transition government to decide on a matter as important as the maritime border with Lebanon?
"This is an issue of major importance that influences Israel's security, economy, and energy, and has been under discussion for over a decade by the governments of Israel. If conditions are right for a deal that will protect Israeli interests, it would be a mistake to let the opportunity pass just because of the election. Of course everything will be done in coordination with the legal branch."
Electricity is expensive because of the Ukraine war
The natural gas issue, Elharrar says, is of concern not only to Israel and Lebanon, but the entire world. Every week, she receives messages from European governments seeking solutions to the energy crisis sparked by the Ukraine war and the decision not to import gas from Russia.
"Everyone is looking out for themselves. So I signed a territorial agreement – Israel, Egypt, and the EU – to export Israeli gas to Europe," she says.
Q: Why do we need Egypt?
"We have no gas pipeline [to Europe]. We can only pipe gas to Egypt and Jordan. To pipe gas to Europe, the gas needs to be liquefied, and Egypt can do that. We don't have the machines. We'll pipe a larger quantity of gas to Egypt, and it will be shipped to Europe via Egypt."
Elharrar thinks that the deal will bolster Israel's peace with Egypt, as another gas pipeline is built between the two countries. She does not think that the increased export will adversely affect Israel's future consumption.
"We have reserves for many years. I've asked that we prepare for a competitive process to find more gas fields, and regardless, we are working at full strength to increase and diversity our energy sources. We can't be dependent solely on gas."
Q: So maybe it was a mistake on your part to announce at the end of last year that you were stopping gas exploration, and now starting it again.
"When I announced that exploration had been postponed, there wasn't a war in Europe, and we had reserves for a long time. When I realized the extent of the crisis, I said we can't put it off any longer, because it was obvious that there would be a global need for it. I believe that we mustn't be dogmatic, and even if a decision is made, it can be reserved. Still, the future isn't the world of gas – it's the world of green energy."
Q: What is the export potential to Europe?
"All European countries are interested. They are deeply worried about the winter, and they want to store gas. But so we aren't dealing with each country separately, we decided to deal with the European Union in a concentrated manner. At any rate, we don't have enough gas to give to every country. We are giving them a little bit in the face of the existing shortage."
Elharrar thinks that in hindsight, Israel could have struck a better deal with the gas companies that would have lowered the price of gas to the local market.
Subscribe to Israel Hayom's daily newsletter and never miss our top stories!
"We're living with the results of the deals, and I wasn't in the room during the negotiations, which wasn't fair on my part, but in future I think we can make better deals."
Q: The price of electricity rose 8.6% last week.
"I'm a citizen. I pay electric bills, and obviously that's a very steep rise. The price of electricity in Israel is the result of the 180% rise in price of coal, as a result of the Ukraine war. We're in the process of transitioning, and according to our plan, we won't be using coal by 2025 – just gas, which should bring the price down significantly. But we took steps to moderate the price hike, which should have been 20%. The finance minister responded to my request to reduce the percentage of coal used, thereby bringing down the price."
Q: If we're talking about cost of living, it seems like that's your [Yesh Atid's] main problem in the current election campaign.
"[Opposition leader Benjamin] Netanyahu was in power here for 12 years, and prices were already really high. No one can claim that prices have gone up this year and everything was fine before that. We're trying to offer solutions, like [the one for] working families – 120,000 people received 4,800 shekels ($1,484) extra last month. We raised stipends for soldiers and Holocaust survivors, something that never happened before."
Q: Still, it's really expensive here. And you're the government. You can't put the blame on the person who was there before you.
"As a citizen, I realize it's annoying, but really, it could be a lot worse. We reached a place where everyone did what they wanted, and then we came in as the government and told the importers, 'Wait, don't raise prices, we'll bring in other companies.'"
Q: Are you claiming that the previous government didn't care about the citizens?
"I'm not claiming. Let the people judge."
Q: According to the polls, the people think differently that you.
"I don't live according to the polls. I live according to facts. Netanyahu sat in the investigative committee probing the Mount Meron disaster and said, 'I didn't see anything, I didn't hear anything, I didn't know anything.' That's not how you run a country."
Q: In the end, this election is also a referendum on Netanyahu.
"Netanyahu only worries about himself, his legal issues. That's what he cares about, and the party, unfortunately, follows him. We could set up an amazing, broad government with the Likud tomorrow, but Netanyahu can't lead it. Without him, the Likud is definitely a legitimate party and a partner."
Yesh Atid might be the party in charge now, ("Yair Lapid is a great prime minister," she says) but given the current polls, it's not certain how it will be able to form a government. Elharrar promises that the party will not form a coalition with the Joint Arab List, and thinks that "Lapid has already proven that he's very creative, and he knows how to make the necessary connections with every party, including the Haredim, and reach common ground."
Glasgow and Cairo
In her term as energy minister, there were two events that made headlines apart from the ministry's actual work. The first took place at the Glasgow climate summit, where she was not able to enter the main hall because it was not wheelchair accessible. "It was tough," she says. "I think that the matter of accessibility won't be forgotten easily in UN institutions … Ultimately, it was important to me that the message get through. Everything always needs to be accessible, everywhere."
Q: Are we in Israel accessible enough?
"We've improved wonderfully, really, and we still have a way to go. Yes, we're a society in which it's hard to be different, but now it's less difficult than it was in the past."
The second event was a regional energy summit in Cairo. Elharrar was sitting at the end of the first row, and when Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi entered, he passed by all those present, walked up to her, and greeted her personally.
"It was amazing, and very unexpected," she says. "I was sure he was coming to welcome the Emirati minister, who was sitting next to me, or the Jordanian or Iraqi minister. Then he came up to me and I was a little shocked. All my delegation was outside, they didn't see it. He said he was very happy to host me."
