"I will be prime minister," Yamina leader Naftali Bennett repeats with determination during an interview to Israel Hayom.
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For the hour he speaks to the paper, he sticks to his guns, talking about plans for "when I'm prime minister" and "possible partners in my government."
But Bennett's words don't align with the numbers – they aren't even close. According to the polls, Bennett is the leader of the party that will be the fourth-largest, and no matter how we press, probe, toss around different scenarios, and demand to know how that would make him prime minister, he repeats his statement.
However, while a lot can be said about Bennett, he's no newbie. At one point, he was wiped off the political map, and then he became defense minister despite his party having only three seats. He was a good education minister and won praise for his work as defense minister, and he's not a sucker. In the last few weeks he celebrated another exit, this time of a fintech startup that added tens of millions of shekels to his already full bank account.
Q: Polls are showing you with 10-12 seats. How do you see that making you prime minister?
"If I get to 15 seats, I'll be prime minister. Believe me, I know how to do it. I'll succeed thanks to the fact that I'm not part of the boycott-Netanyahu cult or the Netanyahu-worship cult. Some of the national public feels that Israel will cease to exist once he is no longer in power. He managed to inculcate that believed, but it's wrong. Right after Passover we'll shake Netanyahu's hand, say, 'Thanks a lot, prime minister,' and replace him. The public should know that it's possible to replace him and keep the Right in power. I think that's critical for Israel to take off, because we're treading water. That's why I'm not willing to boycott anyone."
"The people are hurt. I'm the only one who can prevent a fifth election. I won't allow that to happen. We'll take the forces, build a government for national change, that could include parties that are not on the Right. I have no problem with that, as long as I'm prime minister. Anyone who supports a Jewish, democratic state can participate in a government that will take Israel forward."
Q: If Yesh Atid leader Yair Lapid wins more seats than you, and New Hope leader Gideon Sa'ar wins more seats, how will you become prime minister?
"You'll see that it's possible. In the end, most of the Israeli people, not the 'Anyone but Bibi' folks from the protest cult on Balfour St., want the same thing: to get out of the endless impasse. They realize that voting for Netanyahu will lead to more and more elections, they don't want a left-wing government, and they want to take Israel forward. Netanyahu has to be replaced, but with someone from the national camp."
Q: What does that mean?
"There are people whose main motive is revenge. I'm saying that we need to thank Netanyahu, and now it's time for Bennett. You'll see that the moment the psychological change happens, the moment they imagine Bennett sitting in the prime minister's seat, it will happen."
Q: Mind games don't change the numbers.
"Skepticism always goes along with any big move. Today, I'm telling you for the first time that I'm running for prime minister … Because we are the only ones who don't boycott anyone and aren't being boycotted, it will be possible to create a national government."
Q: Is there any scenario in which Bennett is prime minister, Netanyahu foreign minister, Sa'ar defense minister, and Lapid finance minister?
"The government you're describing could exist, or something similar. It's possible. Everyone thinks that things can't change … In my years in politics I've proven my ability to lead political processes."
Q: You started the campaign with a projected 20 seats, and now you're down to 11.
"We're making a comeback. Anyone who is only passionate about hating Netanyahu won't vote for me. Anyone who worships Netanyahu also won't vote for me. My voters are people who want to move Israel ahead, who want to see a civilian paradise here."
Q: Don't your supporters deserve to know whether or not you'll join a Netanyahu government?
"I'm saying that I'm on my way to replacing him. Without a change of leadership, we won't get out of the mud. If we keep voting for the parties we voted for in the last three elections, we'll get the same result. I am voicing change, which is why I'm running for prime minister.
"I'm building a government that will propel Israel forward. Everything is stalled. Even Netanyahu's supporters understand that voting for him will lead to an impasse. Netanyahu can't bring the people together, can't create the momentum. 32 years is a long time. It's time to pass the baton to a new leadership from the Right. But his supporters and I realize that he should be thanked.
"I'm not interested in the obsession with Netanyahu. After the election, I'll do what's best for Israel."
Q: How could you join a government with Sa'ar, who promoted anonymous negative articles about you?
"I feel like I have a target on my back. For a few months now, Sa'ar has been publishing stuff about me, anonymously. Netanyahu has been doing that for years. Bezalel Smotrich started a campaign against me. But their campaigns contradict one another – some say I'll join a Netanyahu government, and Netanyahu says I'll join the other side."
Q: Could you join them after all this mudslinging?
"Obviously, it's possible. Unfortunately, Gideon [Sa'ar] waged an anonymous, illegal campaign against me. He only admitted it when he was caught in the act, and then remembered to call for a ceasefire. Now members of his party are continuing the attacks against us. That isn't our way. I'm doing something strange for a political campaign: I'm presenting work plans.
Q: There are vaccines, Israel is the first to make it past COVID, and even cultural events are starting again. Are you presenting too chilling a picture?
"COVID isn't even the issue. COVID just reflects the terrible lack of management that we had here. All the variants came through the airport, which was wide open. They shut down schools, and failed, rather than moving the chairs outside to the open air.
"But if we look at the last 12 years in which Netanyahu was in power, we see, for example, that we lost the Negev. Bedouin gangs are running protection rackets. I phoned the father of the 10-year-old girl who was raped and he told me that no one cares about them, that none of the government ministers had spoken to them. The prime minister gets photographed when vaccines arrive, but not to go out and meet with people. There is a sense that the government doesn't care. Housing prices are going up and up.
"This past year, I've gone around the country and I've seen all the problems. Ultimately, a young couple who served in the army and pays taxes has no chance of making it in Israel. They leave. There is a failure of management. Look at what is happening at the airport."
"In a book I wrote about ways to handle COVID I wrote that it needed to be addressed like a security problem. Even in the years when the security and defense reality was a tough one, Israel didn't close its skies – it stepped up security. That's what we need to do. Ensure that there are tests before flights and orderly documentation. It's so simple."
When asked about some of the highly-public controversies with former political partners, Bennett says, "from the moment the campaign started, I've tried to speak to the point. From the start of the campaign, Smotrich said we no longer have values, and we'd join the Arab parties and the 'lovers of Hitler.' I think that's silly. It's disappointing to see a campaign based solely on attacking us. Why? Am I less of an ideologue than Smotrich? Do I love the country less? Was my army service of less value than his? Did our party contribute less than his?"
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"His remarks about 'Bennett abandoning values' are harsh. It was me who stopped the handover of Israeli territory under the Kerry plan. … So I'm not willing to accept preaching about having lost values, and I won't be judged by the size of my kippa. I'm proud of who I am and of my family."
When Israel Hayom asks Bennett if he would consider joining a government with the Labor party, he replies, "The historic Labor party is all right. But [now] there is a candidate who can't be part of the coalition because she opposes Israel as a Jewish and democratic state."
Q: A right-wing person like you says the Labor party is a legitimate coalition partner?
"The rule is simple: I won't form a government with parties that Netanyahu wouldn't. Netanyahu brought in Avi Nissankoren. In 2009, Netanyahu tossed out National Union to bring in Ehud Barak, he opted for the Left. In 2013, the first one he signed was Tzipi Livni. He always leaves the ideological Right and the religious Zionists for last."
Q: This time, he's taking [Otzma Yehudit leader] Itamar Ben-Gvir.
"That's his right."
Q: Is there a problem with Ben-Gvir being an MK?
"No problem."
Q: And his being a minister?
"As far as I'm concerned, my cabinet ministers will be people who openly support a Jewish, democratic state."
Bennett reiterates that his goal is not "to perpetuate 32 years of Netanyahu, but to bring about a new reality."
Q: And if that doesn't happen?
"It will happen. It has to happen."
Q: And if it doesn't, and Netanyahu invites you into his government, will you go?
"I've said 100 times that I'm not boycotting Netanyahu, that we need to replace Netanyahu."
Q: Would you prefer to have a government with Merav Michaeli and [Meretz leader] Nitzan Horowitz than with Netanyahu?
"No. That's another Netanyahu spin. He is the one who always brought people from the Left into his governments and appointed people like Nissankoren justice minister. A moment before the election, he starts with that spin."
Q: Can Gideon Sa'ar be prime minister?
"I'm not giving him a grade. Gideon Sa'ar is a skilled politician, and not someone I rule out. The main thing we need today is initiative, energy, and management of a major national crisis."
Q: And he doesn't have those?
"I don't know what he did during COVID. While I was traveling the country, setting up COVID hotels as defense minister and saving lives, I don't know what he was doing. We should judge leaders based on moments of crises."
Q: Can Lapid be prime minister?
"Lapid is Left. I won't be a partner in the establishment of a left-wing government … I look at years of his policies, his attacks on the settlers during the expulsion from Gush Katif, the article about the money 'buried between Itamar and Yitzhar.' In the moment of truth, Lapid is there on the Left."
Q: So you won't join him under any circumstances?
"I'll form the government. We will only replace Netanyahu from the Right, not the Left. The vast majority of the people are on the Right, there are about 80 Knesset seats on the Right, so the prime minister has to come from the Right. I'll form a right-wing government whose core will be the Right. I'm not ruling out parties that are in favor of Jewish, democratic state. There will be fundamentals that we will lay out, and anyone who accepts them can join."
Q: What did you think about Lapid saying he would join a government with the Joint Arab List?
"It showed how big a gap there is between us and him."
Q: Will the Haredim join your government?
"The Haredim can be partners in the government, but not run the show. The ones who run the government are the people."
Q: Netanyahu should be collapsing. How is he still the head of the largest party?
"People have become convinced that there is no Israel without him. They need to stop thinking that Netanyahu is the only one, realize that every leader can be replaced. Israel succeeded before him … He is part of a chain of leaders.
Q: What is the worst mistake he's made?
"Neglect. Masses of people are suffering and paying for the mistakes without anyone knowing. There are the million residents of southern Israel, young couples without prospects even before COVID, the cost of living, all the domestic issues. And of course, as the person who thought up the sovereignty plan back in 2011, when everyone laughed at me and said it was impossible, it pains me to see that Israel hasn't applied sovereignty. The Jordan Valley, Ariel, and Ofra could now be part of the state of Israel. Menachem Begin didn't talk, he applied sovereignty."
Q: Will your coalition partners go along with sovereignty?
"If we get enough seats, they won't have a choice."
Q: Are you in contact with them? With Sa'ar? Avigdor Lieberman?
"I'm talking to all the players on the political field. Politics isn't about promoting things everyone agrees on, but about finding common ground."
Q: Is there any chance that when you're prime minister, your 'fuse' will be longer?
"As defense minister you make decisions about people's lives every day. You send people to operations that could end with them dying. That process makes you think a lot more. It doesn't contradict the need to move Israel forward, quickly. My vision for a government is of a high-tech government, with goals for the ministers. I was in Netanyahu government for eight years and the prime minister never called me in and asked me what my goals were. When I was a high tech CEO, every manager came in with goals, every quarter."
Q: What is the first thing you will do as prime minister?
"I'll sign of on dramatic reductions to taxation and regulation, to make the market a free one."
Q: Who will your ministers be?
"I'm not appointing ministers right now.
Congratulated on his latest exit, Bennett says, "That's exactly what I want – high tech, business economic thinking that moves forward."
