A few days after the last elections, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Minister Gilad Erdan met privately to discuss the future of their joint paths. "I told the prime minister, 'You know, I've stood by your side for half of my life, very close to you," says Erdan.
"He asked: 'What, really?', and then we were both silent for a few moments.
"Listen, it's a big part of my life. In 1996 I started working as an aide to Netanyahu and director of the Public Affairs Department in the Prime Minister's Office. It's been almost 25 years since then, and I'm almost 50. Half of my life was spent in this circle."
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This week Erdan and his family traveled to New York, ahead of his new posting as Israel's ambassador to the UN, replacing Danny Danon. In another four months he will also replace Ron Dermer as the ambassador in Washington.
"On a personal level, it felt right to make a change. I was a minister in important offices, I legislated dozens of laws, I was on many committees, I'm proud of the many reforms and processes that I led. Now it's time to go on to something different, something new."
Q: As someone who for years has defended Netanyahu, maybe now it's also the right time to get further away?
"That's not a consideration. I defended the prime minister also during the tough years. As long as Netanyahu represents the positions of the national camp and the Likud, I will support him and won't work against him. It's not personal. Personal relationships can be good or bad, I don't let that influence my principled views.
"I'm not in the Knesset or government as my own representative. I represent the national camp. I have no right to take my ambitions or frustrations and act according to them."
Q: Yet soon Netanyahu's trial will begin, and in the background, the protests are growing.
"I'm confident that the prime minister himself would also prefer to do his job without indictments and a trial. Of course it's a disadvantage, but Netanyahu has many advantages despite this. He believes he's innocent, and in addition there is the choice the people made, which says he's the only person who can form a government. The people prefer him over a person with no abilities or experience, or one who holds leftist positions. In addition to the presumption of innocence and a clear rule of the law that allows him to continue to serve, there's no reason that should not happen.
"The only one allowed to determine guilt is the court. Not the police, not the prosecution, and not the attorney general. I don't disrespect them, but there have been many cases when indictments have been served and the court acquitted."
Q: Does the public still want Netanyahu, at the same level?
"Public opinion can change sometimes. There's no doubt that today, when the public is in financial distress and worried about income, naturally people want answers from the government. It's completely legitimate, and that's why the atmosphere today is unpleasant. Does anyone in the Israeli political system have a secret patent for this situation? Are other countries not having a second wave as well?
"I'm not disputing the fact that people have lost their jobs - all those who worked in the leisure sector were dealt a serious blow. They need to be first in line for the government's attention, because the uncertainty for them is highest."
Q: Do you agree with the prime minister and his supporters that the demonstrations are an attempt to trample democracy?
"In these protests there are a lot of people that I understand, and they need to be helped, because they are in distress, and there are also political figures who are using this as an opportunity. That's also legitimate. A political protest is legitimate. The uncertainty and loss of income spark protests. It doesn't happen only in Israel."
Q: As former Public Security Minister do you think the police treated the protesters in a measured way?
"The police have the most difficult and ungrateful job there is, because the policeman needs to make decisions in split seconds, and the decisions he makes will always cause anger for someone. In this case - either the protesters, or the administration who is being protested against. The right to protest is fundamental, and we need to safeguard it.
"However, the freedom to protest is not the freedom to endanger the public with infection and not the freedom to incite to violence. The police need to act wherever the law is broken and wherever rules are broken, without distinguishing who the protesters are and against what and whom they are protesting. At the end of the day, the police have an almost impossible mission, to enforce distancing between people in a crowd of hundreds and thousands. This is a mission that leads eventually to using force, which can deteriorate the situation further. I thought that during the pandemic the scope of the protests should be limited, so officers can make sure the rules of distancing are kept. That didn't happen because the prime minister and attorney general thought otherwise."
Q: Will you run to lead the Likud after Netanyahu?
"It's legitimate and obvious that I have ambitions to reach the top, but if I declare that a day will come and I'll run for prime minister, that's not what will get me there, only my achievements will. I'm building my public service career that way, so if I decide to run - and I don't have a final decision on this - I will have all the tools and the experience to know I am capable. Representing Israel in the international arena and working with the US administration are very significant when it comes to the experience one can get."
Q: There's talk of another round of elections.
"My personal estimation is that despite all the prophecies, the political system, at least the one of the Likud, will continue in the coming years as is, without change."
Erdan was offered to serve as UN ambassador a few times since he entered parliament in 2002. "Silvan Shalom offered me the job when he was Foreign Minister in 2005, but I was just a legislator for two years then, it was too early. Lieberman offered me the job in 2011 when he was Foreign Minister, but I was deep in reforms and environmental struggles as Minister of the Environment."
Q: Environment took precedence over the UN?
"Absolutely. The Ministry of Environment was my first [portfolio] in government, in 2009, and the portfolio I liked the most. There you fight for the whole public, for its health, and all the public is with you. If it's a campaign against building on the Palmachim beach or the law to prevent smoking in public spaces - there's no Left and Right, you fight for everyone, with no exception. The role of an ambassador is like that, too."
Q: What made you take the job this time?
"We were much more ready now, as a family. It's a family decision, at the end of the day, and my wife Shlomit had to be on board with us taking our four children to a completely new reality."
Q: What role would have kept you in the country?
"I don't know if there was one, and anyway, not the portfolios the Likud held. Education interested me, but when I met with the Prime Minister we didn't know if the Likud would have it. Except for Education, the Foreign and Defense portfolios interested me, of course, but the Likud doesn't have them.
"The prime minister called me in first to meet with him. Netanyahu knew that I've been deliberating for years about the UN job, and he also had a problem with the number of portfolios he had, of course. He told me: 'Tell me what you want. If you want to be a senior minister, you will. But if you seriously consider the UN, I'm willing to offer you something we haven't seen for 60 years, since the days of Abba Eban. Both the UN and Washington."
"I get things done. I wanted to know for sure that I would have an opportunity for significant work. The role of ambassador in Washington promises a lot of work, and I felt it was time to make my dreams in the international diplomacy arena come true."
Q: It's a dream?
"Absolutely. From childhood, I wished to fight for Israel in the world. As a boy, I dreamed of 'being in politics', but never thought I had a chance. The plan was to work as a lawyer, to make some money, and then try to get into politics."
Q: Was the dream politics or diplomacy?
"As a boy, I didn't dream to become environmental protection minister. I dreamed of a heroic struggle for Israel in the international arena."
Erdan will live with his family in New York, in a flat used by all of Israel's ambassadors to the UN, since Chaim Herzog did so in the 1970s. When he arrives he will be tested for the coronavirus, and if the result is negative, he will be allowed to enter the office building used by the Mission to the UN and Israel's Consulate in New York.
"A few days after I arrive in New York I will present my credentials to the Secretary General of the UN, and from that moment I will begin my job in the UN," he says. "Unfortunately, it may happen on Zoom."
On January 20, after the elections in the US, Erdan will replace Ron Dermer as the Israeli ambassador in Washington. As of now, his appointment for the job is for one year only. "After one year, Benny Gantz is supposed to become prime minister, and he can decide if I continue or not, it's his right to put someone else there. Assuming he actually will be prime minister."
Q: Assuming? Meaning, there's a chance he won't be prime minister?
"My agreement with Netanyahu is that as long as he is prime minister, I will fill both roles, in the UN and Washington. I think and believe that Netanyahu will continue to serve as prime minister beyond next year."
Q: How will you combine both roles?
"With a lot of hard work. I'm used to doing a few jobs at once. In 2009 I was the Minister for Environmental Protection and the Minister in charge of coordinating between the Government and the Knesset. In 2013, the Minister of Communications and Minister of Home Front Defense, and in 2015, Minister of Public Security, Strategic Affairs and Public Diplomacy."
"There are other countries who appointed one ambassador for both roles, there's logic to it. Technically, the distance between New York and Washington is not great. Four hours drive, that's all. If I leave Manhattan at 6 a.m. I'll be in Washington by 10. On the way, I can work on my phone and computer. That's something Abba Eban could not do in the 1950s.
"There will be nights where I stay to sleep in Washington, and won't get back to my family in New York. That's another reason the decision had to be made at the family level. Shlomit is on board with this, and without her it would not be possible."
Q: What will be the main issues you focus on?
"I presume the pandemic will continue to top the list, on both fronts, but simultaneously there are issues with existential repercussions for Israel.
"The Iran issue is nearing a critical point. The weapons embargo on Iran, as part of the deal they signed with Obama, is about to end on October 18. If that happens, Iran will be able to purchase advanced planes and submarines. The US is trying to extend the embargo, but it's hitting a wall in the Security Council. The Russians are considering vetoing the extension, so there may be some very significant disagreements up ahead.
"For me, as the UN ambassador of a country threatened by Iran, I will have a lot of important work to explain to the world the need to impose sanctions, to stop the strengthening of Iran and its constant race towards a nuclear weapon."
Q: Did you get instructions from the prime minister to advance sovereignty in Judea and Samaria?
"Not yet, but the prime minister is committed to this issue. The pandemic and US elections have delayed the process, but not removed it from the agenda. I have been an enthusiastic supporter of applying sovereignty for many years now. I agreed with the prime minister that things need to be done in coordination and agreement with the US"
Q: How does that sit with your declared objection to a Palestinian state?
"I have always objected to a Palestinian state, in the conventional meaning of a state, and I still object. The Trump plan does not create such a state. It actually accepts all our demands and only determines that afterward we'll discuss the type of Palestinian entity that will exist.
"Prime Minister Netanyahu was right to support the "deal of the century" since first of all the Palestinians must give up the Right of Return, end the incitement, disarm Hamas and other steps, which only after those will we be able to argue if it's autonomy, a state-minus and so on.
"When you soberly evaluate the plan and the recalcitrant attitude of the Palestinians, with cooperation from some of the Israeli Arabs, it's obvious that the only part that will probably be implemented is the application of sovereignty, which we've dreamt of for years. The parts that have to do with the Palestinians are not expected to happen. Unless they turn into the Swiss."
Q: What's your model for being an ambassador?
"I can't say I have a formula, and it would be arrogant on my part to draw up a model before I began the job. But I hold the view that is relevant to all my political life: to be on the offense and not the defense. To be statesmanlike, to respectfully represent the country and the government, to avoid being on the defense. I always prefer to be on the offense.
"That was also my credo as Minister of Strategic Affairs. All the boycotts against Israel and the BDS activity are hypocrisy and lies. We published reports that reveal terrorist organizations behind the alleged civilian BDS activity, and statements of BDS leaders that revealed classic anti-Semitism. When AirBNB wanted to boycott Judea and Samaria, we worked with Jewish and pro-Israel organizations and US governors, who announced they would boycott the company, and it retracted that bizarre decision. Those are just a few examples.
"In this spirit I intend to push an ongoing campaign in the UN, whose objective is to bring about the dismantling of UNRWA. This is one of the major obstacles to calming the region, which is abusing its role and is a disaster for peace. I don't oppose helping Palestinian refugees. The treatment should be similar to that of all the refugees around the world: a promise they are absorbed appropriately in the countries they live in. President Trump stopped funding to UNRWA, and justifiably so."
Q: The Jewish vote in the US is mostly Democratic, and like the Democratic party, is critical of Israel.
"Only small parts of the Democratic party are critical of Israel. Its mainstream supports Israel, and just recently they again approved military aid to Israel, at a difficult time. During the recent discussions on the party's platform some radical initiatives came up, like cutting aid to Israel if annexation happens, and they were all voted down by large majorities.
"I will know how to work with the same efficacy and dedication with both parties. With the Democrats I have a deep and significant shared concern - protecting the environment."
Q: What did you achieve in your five-year term as Minister of Public Security?
"I am especially proud of the police victory over the lone wolf terrorists. I started the job in May 2015, and in September, on the eve of the Jewish New Year, the first attack occurred, followed by hundreds of attacks. I'm happy that people have managed to forget a very violent year of knife attacks, rammings, and shootings.
"The Ministry of Public Security and the police do not get the appreciation they deserve, because they don't have the status of the Defense Ministry, who fights the enemy. They work in law enforcement of the state's citizens and are in constant friction with them, but in recent years they have been the one standing on the front lines of the war on terror. We lost many policemen and women, more than IDF soldiers.
"In this case as well, my approach was offense, not defense. We eased the restrictions on opening fire to deal with attackers, we outlawed the Murabitun and Murabitat fundamentalist organizations, which operate under the guise of Muslim study groups, and for years have engaged in harassing and intimidating Jewish visitors to the Temple Mount and disturbing the peace on the site, the Jerusalem district got massive reinforcement, we set minimum punishment requirements against those throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, we developed tools to fight incitement on the web and identify profiles of inciters and incited.
"Today Jerusalem is one of the safest places in the Western world. The whole city is networked with advanced cameras for facial identity and smart technologies. The speed of reaction is at 15-20 seconds to each terror attack attempt. We raised wages for police, we've opened new police stations. When I started the job there were only three police stations in Arab towns, now there are 11."
Q: And yet, a year ago the leaders of the Arab society protested against the government and police, citing the rise in crime and murders. They declared a complete lack of faith in Israel Police and said the police treat the Arab public as enemies.
"Who protested and came out with these declarations? Ayman Odeh, who participated in solidarity protests with Hamas? Only in Israel can the media take a man like Odeh, who is an enemy of the state, who identifies with the worst of our enemies who want to destroy us, and give him such a large and broad platform.
"To the issue: 70 years of neglect, which means among other things a huge lack of governance of the state, cannot be fixed in a few years. Furthermore, there's nothing to do, we're talking about cultural norms of the Arab society. Instead of blaming us, let the Arab leadership take responsibility and start delegitimizing murders based on primitive norms towards women. Otherwise it won't change. 60-70 percent of murders, and especially murders of women, take place in the Arab sector.
"So of course, as a minister, I have to ask myself difficult questions, and of course the government has responsibility. But the Arab leadership also has to ask itself tough questions and do something on its part. They shouldn't suffice with saying a thousand times 'gather the weapons.' When they will report - and they know where the illegal weapons are - that will be a true change and taking of responsibility.
"In order to change norms, there is a need for leadership that has to start denouncing violence against women and the use of live ammunition, and begin to cooperate, which is a term they hate, but as citizens of the state they must cooperate. It's easy to shirk their responsibility by pointing a finger at the Minister of Public Security.
"In this case as well most of the citizens, even in the Arab society, know the truth. Including that, sadly, the Arab society is a very violent society. Not all of it, but the norms are different. The speed with which they pull guns out during a fight is different."
Q: Should the responsibilities of the Minister of Public Security be extended?
"Definitely. For years there have been those who say the minister might get involved in investigations. But investigations of elected officials are just a small part of police work. From a total of 33,000 policemen, how many deal with investigations of politicians? 100-200 at the most.
"That's why it's difficult to force work arrangements on 99% of the police. A minister can not make the police act more on the issue of gender violence, for example.
"I had a constant feud with the police, when I asked to see the breakdown of wiretaps. I asked to see how many of them are for tracking violent men and how many after politicians, without getting into this case or that case. Just to understand how resources are used and what the priorities are. It wasn't given to me. Only the Chief of Police has the authority, no one above him, not even an auditing body. The most that can happen is the State Comptroller writing a report that has no teeth.
"I told Ayelet Shaked, who was Justice Minister, and State Prosecutor Shai Nitzan, to take this out of the police's hands. Take the few investigators dealing with it, and create in the Justice Ministry a unit for investigating elected officials, or investigating public corruption. Just like there's a unit to investigate policemen, which is also part of the Justice Ministry. Leave the police with keeping citizens safe and fighting crime. There's enough work. But it never happened."
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Q: As the one who was between a rock and a hard place, did you not ask Netanyahu to restrain his critique of the police? It blurred the achievements of the police. Your achievements as minister.
"I am a minister in a government led by Netanyahu, who feels he has harsh claims against the police concerning the investigations of him. It's his right to express them. He never pointed his critique against all of Israel Police, and also gave me backing for additional budgets and authorities for police, inaugurated new police stations in Arab towns and thanked the police on many occasions."
Q: In the latest primaries in the Likud, as opposed to the ones before it, you didn't finish in first place on the list.
"I was in the top three. Before I left for the US, I held ten gatherings to say goodbye to Likud activists. Unfortunately, they were very small, due to the Health Ministry guidelines. If it wasn't for the pandemic, I would have held at least another 15 events, with many more participants, and said goodbye personally to thousands of people I care about. I wanted to look each and every one of them in the eyes, and make it clear that while I'm going out on my life mission, they should have no doubt: I'll be back."
