For months, former Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat was in the prime minister's company, being photographed next to him and enjoying the compliments Netanyahu heaped on him and the declarations that he would be appointed to a ministerial position in the new government. But at the start of last week, when the 35th government was sworn in, Barkat not only did not get the job he wanted – he found himself out of the cabinet entirely.
Q: You were left out. Were you hurt?
"Not at all. I'm a man of action, I look ahead. I have a lot of energy. In this coming term, I want to be someplace with major influence, and in the situation that's been created, an MK who can be active in the areas he wants to focus on. I want to focus on economic and social issues and take part in Knesset committees. That's more important than having a portfolio that can't influence anything."
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Q: Were you disappointed when the prime minister didn't appoint you finance minister, as he promised?
"In my conversations with the prime minister, I told him that I understood political exigency. That if it didn't work out for him to give me the Treasury, he could give me another important portfolio where I could have an influence. When that wasn't possible, I decided that the place I do the most was as a regular MK. I'm not dealing with one specific portfolio or another, but with the issues that interest me."
Q: Were your conversations with the prime minister difficult? Didn't you ask him how he could break his promise to you?
"My relations with the Netanyahu family are good, and they'll stay that way. The prime minister explained his needs, and explained that it would be difficult for him to give me the finance portfolio."
Q: Would you have taken the Jerusalem affairs and heritage portfolio? You were mayor of Jerusalem.
"No. I always said, and still say, that it's a portfolio we don't need. I was the mayor of Jerusalem. The job of 'Jerusalem minister' doesn't have any real meaning. We could easily do without that portfolio. As mayor you handle a budget of 9 billion shekels and 10,000 workers; the Jerusalem [ministerial] portfolio is hundreds of millions and a few employees. It's unnecessary."
Q: When he refused you the portfolios you wanted, what did he offer you?
"A new portfolio, cyber affairs."
Q: A perfect fit for you, you come from the high-tech sector.
"I told him that even if I wanted it I couldn't take it because I might run into a number of conflicts of interest. As far as the intelligence or higher education portfolios, I made it clear that wasn't why I was here. I didn't want to waste public money. I want to do bigger things."
Q: The intelligence minister has a seat at the cabinet table. That isn't respectable?
"I prefer to focus on other things, the economy and society, the international arena. I'll support the prime minister until he steps down, and the day after he decides to step down, I intend to run for head of the Likud and prime minister, and win."
Q: You don't think he lied to you when he promised to make you finance minister?
"Not at all. Netanyahu said repeatedly that he meant it. If this were a narrow government, I certainly would have gotten the finance ministry. But I'm not new. I wasn't born yesterday. I understand the necessities."
Q: It was strange they talked about giving you the job. You just joined the Knesset – there are others 'in line' ahead of you.
"Someone from Blue and White told me they know I took seats from them and caused [voters] to switch sides. Netanyahu knows it, Blue and White and the public knows it. We saw that in the polls. Happily, I'm acceptable to the Right and to the Center. People know me and know what I did in Jerusalem. A lot of people said that if Nir Barkat was at the top of the Likud next to the prime minister, it was a good reason to vote Likud."
Q: Did that cause problems for you in the party?
"I feel great in the party. Likud voters like it when someone new with abilities and talents in the public and business sector comes along with ideas that the prime minister adopts. In the primaries, they voted me into the top 10 on the party list, the first time. It's good for the Likud."
Q: There is a theory that Netanyahu doesn't promote people who might pose a threat to him. Did he see you as a threat?
"I'm not going to go into his considerations. It doesn't interest me. He explained his concerns to me. I respect them and I'm moving on."
Q: He sent Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan abroad. He didn't appoint Gideon Sa'ar or give him a portfolio. Are you someone who poses a threat?
"I'm not a threat to the prime minister, I support him. I didn't run against him, but at the same time I announced that the day after he steps down, I intend to run and win. There is no contradiction there."
Q: You were painted as a "rebel," like Tzachi Hanegbi or Avi Dichter.
"Not at all. The conversation with the prime minister wasn't threatening. It was supportive, enabling. There were some who tried to use leverage and threaten the prime minister in various ways in order to get ahead. That's not my style."
Q: You'll be a regular MK. Won't it be boring?
"I'm going to be a member of the Knesset Finance Committee, the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, and the Science and Technology Committee. The work there will allow me to promote issues that interest me."
Q: What do your Likud colleagues say to your announcement that you're going to be the next prime minister, after Netanyahu?
"I don't know. Ask them."
Q: Are they mad at you?
"I don't know. It doesn't interest me. My way of doing things is through cooperation and creating content, supporting the prime minister, and a lot of hard work in the field. Everyone can choose his own path."
Q: Who is your competition? Sa'ar?
"Let's not get into that. Anyone who wants to run the day after Netanyahu steps down – not against him, but after him – no problem."
Even without the finance portfolio, Barkat is working on strategies to help the economy recover from the coronavirus crisis.
"I proposed a variety of solutions to the people at the Finance Ministry for the problems coronavirus caused. Unfortunately, the Treasury functionaries aren't there yet. It's a very difficult problem. I suggested a bill on how to handle how the corona affected businesses. Over a million people are furloughed, and I'm disturbed at the Treasury's incorrect conduct. I expect that a lot of businesses will go bankrupt and a lot of the million furloughed people won't have any work to go back to. The Treasury needs to be dismantled and rebuilt. The functionaries there have vertigo. They don't understand what needs to be done. This event [corona] is too much for them."
Q: You [the Likud] have been in power for 13 years. You could have done something.
"There is an imbalance between the administration and the elected officials. The Budget Department doesn't understand the sale of the event. I see what they are suggesting, and I say that we have a very big problem. They don't understand the scale of the challenge."
Q: You are critical of the Treasury, but a member of a coalition that includes over 30 ministers, a wasteful and bloated cabinet.
"I'm not comfortable with it. They could have managed with fewer. I passed on a minor portfolio."
Q: What is your opinion about Yamina being left out of the coalition?
"I would have liked to see them inside. They should have been part of the coalition. The prime minister gave them a decent offer. I'm sorry they're out."
Q: People say that the preparations for coronavirus entailed exaggerated scare tactics that didn't line up with reality. What do you think?
"The response was the right one, and thanks to it, we are where we are. The exit [from the shutdown] should have come sooner. The knowledge we have today will lead to the second wave, if it comes, being handled differently than the first. We know more – for example, about quarantining specific places, without hurting everyone."
Q: Netanyahu's trial?
"I wish him success, and hope he proves his innocence."
Two weeks ago, Barkat was involved in the rescue of 26 Israelis who were stranded in Morocco for three months because flights had been canceled. Barkat says he became involved in the problem when one of the stranded Israelis, who hadn't known him previously, reached out.
"At first, El Al was ready to send a plane for them, but that [plan] stalled because Israeli airlines can't land there. I went to Rabbi Shlomo Amar and got him to send a letter to the king of Morocco. He did, but it didn't help. We appealed to the Foreign Ministry, but it didn't move. I asked the head of the Mossad to use his own tools to look into the matter, and that didn't work out, either.
"Because we couldn't send an Israeli plane, I phoned Sheldon and Dr. Miriam Adelson [disclaimer: the Adelson family owns the company that is the primary shareholder in Israel Hayom] and they immediately said they'd help. We tried to send an American plane that would bring [the Israelis] from Marrakesh to Israel, but that was a no-go. In the meantime, [Foreign Minister] Israel Katz tweeted that he was working to rescue the Israelis in Morocco. That didn't help, to say the least – it only sparked antagonism. I reached out to US Ambassador David Friedman, who contacted the White House, and the prime minister got involved. In the end, we agreed that Air France would fly them out of Morocco, and the Adelsons' plane would bring them to Israel.
"When they landed, I was very excited. There were plenty of obstacles along the way. I insisted on success. We waited for the plane at the airport. We were standing on the ground, the doors opened, and older people who didn't really understand what was happening got off the plane. I think about the way the Jewish people look out for each other, how they don't leave anyone behind. We couldn't hug them, but just seeing them return home gave me a sense of satisfaction."
Not long after Barkat was first sworn in as a Knesset member last year, he submitted a bill that would allow MKs to forgo a salary.
"I want to work for a shekel a year, but I can't. Every person in every country can opt to forgo a salary, other than [our] MKs. Why? It doesn't make sense. I want to serve as a personal example, but the law doesn't allow me to. In the meantime, over a million shekels have piled up in the Knesset coffers, because I didn't give them my bank details and they don't know how to deposit [my salary]. It was my mother's blessing: 'May you pay a lot of income tax and allow yourselves to work for a shekel a year.' That's what I've been doing for 17 years."
Q: Some would call that populism.
"Let them say what they want. That's what I do. I have no expectation that other MKs will lower their salaries."
Earlier this month, computer chip giant Intel announced it had acquired Israel's Moovit app for $900 million. Nir Barkat and his brother are part of the massive exit.
"We have holdings. It was pure faith on my part, I haven't dealt with business for 17 years, but Moovit brought in a billion shekels ($283 million) in taxes. I might not have been given the job of finance minister, but I gave incoming [finance] minister Israel Katz a present. I was happy to do it."
