The most obvious aspect of the April 9 election and the one that will be held this Tuesday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells the Israel Hayom weekend supplement in a special interview, is that Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor Lieberman wants to oust him from power.
"He is doing everything to make the Likud government under my leadership fail, and wants to keep me out of political life, and isn't even trying to hide it. Whoever doesn't want me as prime minister should vote for Lieberman. Anyone who does want me shouldn't vote for him – they should vote for the Likud," Netanyahu says.
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Since Lieberman has started receiving the kid-glove treatment from all sides, conspiracy theories have arisen. But everything is out in the open. Lieberman's sabotage of the last coalition talks has given him immunity and glory, because, in addition to doing serious harm to the country, he also attacked Netanyahu, causing the Left to pin its hopes on him.
Some 50 minutes away from the Prime Minister's Office, on route to the Luna venue in Or Akiva, traffic is heavy but moving. The prime minister is pleased. We sat facing each other in the back seat of his Audi. This was the first time I had seen the world from the windows of the prime minister's vehicle.
At the time of the interview, Netanyahu was running on only an hour's sleep, but he appeared alert and comfortable, sharp and mindful. According to one of his advisers, he always spurs on his staff and works intensively himself, sometimes saying, "If I'm tired, that probably means I need to step down." Occasionally, a phone call interrupted our conversation, like the one in which he was informed that the chairman of the Central Elections Committee, Supreme Court Justice Hanan Melcer, had decided to summon [Likud spokesman] Yonatan Orich to be questioned about allegedly submitting false testimony. The testimony in question argued that Netanyahu's TV appearance on Tuesday evening was not a political event. Netanyahu made reference to "the Soviet Union."
"But you're prime minister of this Soviet Union," I tell him.
He insists: "When the spokesman of the Likud is summoned for questioning about an issue like this, it reminds me of the Soviet Union."
But before everything else, I wanted to take him back to him to being taken offstage in Ashdod this week when a rocket warning siren went off.
"You have to follow instructions and head for a protected area," Netanyahu says.
"[Blue and White leaders] Gantz and Lapid's cries of joy competed with the cries of joy from Hamas that the prime minister of Israel was being shot at. It's horrifying. Aside from the fact that Gantz said he would have remained onstage, that means he would have left close to 1,000 people unprotected, against the ordered of the IDF Homefront Command. I spoke calmly and asked people to leave the venue quietly. This shows his [Gantz's] lack of judgment."
Q: There is the problem of Gaza, the fact that they can disrupt a public event, including an election.
"No doubt. The question of Gaza is not whether we will fight a war, but when. It's inevitable. I say that because Hamas is not exercising its authority and responsibility as sovereign to prevent attacks on our territory from inside Gaza. So it's just a matter of time. We'll choose the best time for us to fight that campaign. We can't avoid it. I also understand the suffering of the residents of the south. It's heartwrenching, and I'm considering a lot of different things, when and how to launch that campaign."
Q: Gantz, a former chief of staff, also said he would do something. What's the difference - is it the political results?
"First of all, I didn't see any initiative on Gaza from him when he was chief of staff. I certainly didn't see any evidence of any policy that is different from what has been in place thus far. The difference would be when we start the campaign that we are currently preparing. Of course, I can't give you any more details."
Q: If we're talking about security issues, two weeks ago there was a day in which you noted strikes in three different Mideast countries, apparently including Lebanon, and that ended with a major incident on the [northern] border. You don't think that a border war, like the one that exists with Gaza, could begin on the Lebanese border? With Hezbollah driving us crazy like Hamas does?
"Sure. But the fact that they aren't doing that shows that the eulogies about the loss of Israeli deterrence are too early. We are operating in all directions against the enemies of Israel who are trying to attack us and cause us harm. They are united in their goal of wiping us out. We are operating in the north and in the east. We are active in the south. From time to time, we even operate off the coast. Not everything – only a small part – of these actions are made public. We're involved in a wide-scale battle. I'm considering how this battle should best be waged."
As long as I'm prime minister, I will not allow Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon
Q: In the campaign against Iran, we were in full coordination with the Americans. Now we see that US National Security adviser John Bolton, the chief hawk, has been fired.
"I'm not going to get into the personnel changes at the White House. I can say that the American policy President Donald Trump has led, together with some other people, and that includes [Secretary of State] Pompeo, Bolton, and others, is very aggressive. The day they announced that Bolton was leaving the White House, they said that US sanctions against Iran would be softened. Two hours later, there was an American announcement that sanctions were being increased, on the Revolutionary Guards as well as the Iranian government. I have no doubt that President Trump will stick to that policy, whether there are talks [with Iran] or not."
Israel – an international player
On Wednesday, US media reported that Trump was considering easing sanctions on Iran as a way of meeting with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani. "Pay to play" – that's Trump's style. His policy is less consistent or coherent than that of Netanyahu. But it's no crazy guess to say that Trump deeply values Netanyahu and is maintaining close ties with him for one simple reason: He likes people who stick to their goals, their plans, act with determination, and are willing to use strength in the name of national interests.
Q: Firing Bolton seemed to remind me of dark events from the past. Like Stalin firing Maxim Litvinov, who was Jewish, to send a signal to Hitler than he was getting rid of the Jew and was ready to talk business.
"I don't think so. Not from what I know or hear. I think it was the opposite. More than that. The previous US administration's policy was actually to pave Iran's way to nuclear weapons, an arsenal of nuclear weapons, in exchange for a certain delay and immense sums of money reaching the Iranian economy as a result of sanctions being lifted. So far, Trump has gone in a completely different direction, and I think he'll stick to it."
Q: So you aren't expecting a moving meeting between Trump and Rouhani at the UN?
"That's his prerogative. But I think the important thing is that if there is a meeting, the positions taken will be totally different from what the Iranian expect from the Americans."
Q: In a Times investigative piece about the attack-that-wasn't, you said you would do it if you had the necessary majority. Gantz is quoted as someone who is saying we would have paid too high a price, pushed things back two or three years, and opened an unending front against Iran.
"So an unending front hasn't been opened? Look at what's happening with Iran. It sends its octopus arms over here, trying to strike at us via Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon, as well as Gaza and Yemen. What is he talking about? The struggle was about how we could enlist the world into our battle against Iran – militarily, economically, diplomatically. They were in favor of ineffectiveness and agreement. What would have happened if we had agreed to President Obama's nuclear deal? Who would have agreed to go with us? Do you think there would be any opposition left in America? People would have said, 'If the Jews are giving in, why should we fight this country that wants to destroy us?' I don't agree about the effect of a military strike. It would have projected our strength. It would have created an element of deterrence. Iran would have needed to think about whether to continue its [nuclear project] and suffer more strikes."
Q: Do you think it's right to discuss these matters publicly?
"No. And I didn't discuss them publicly, but I was asked if I really intended to attack or just wanted to create the impression that I did. I meant it and I was absolutely serious about our military plans, and not as an excuse to drag the US into sanctions that would serve as an alternative to a military strike. But it's true that they did that because they believed I was serious. That doesn't mean my intentions weren't serious."
Q: What is surprising about the piece is that it reveals Obama was serious and had prepared a military option that would take out the military facility in Fordow with a big boom.
"I think the fact that we demonstrated a willingness to strike brought a lot of results. The moment they would have thought we didn't intend to, the results would have been completely different. In any case, I want to say against that as long as I'm prime minister, I will not allow Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon."
Q: Do you deliver Trump messages from Russian President Vladimir Putin?
"No, no. I don't pretend to be a go-between between these two superpowers, who can speak on their own. Although we can certainly see a big difference in Israel's status. Over 60 years ago we were being told by both Russia and the US to leave Sinai. And now, a few months ago I brought representatives of Russia and the US to Israel to talk about getting Iran out of Syria. That's the essence of what has changed."
Q: In the Avivim border incident, two Russian anti-tank missiles were fired at IDF forces.
"Yes. They can also use American weapons supplied a while ago against us. It's not the kind of weapon that decides things. It makes a difference in the sense that we aren't willing to accept our enemies having precision weapons that pose a threat to Israel, and certainly aren't willing to accept the manufacture of whose weapons to be used against us."
Holding the fort
This Tuesday, right after Netanyahu announced that he intended to annex the Jordan Valley if elected, Washington put out a limp message saying that its policy had not changed. That response encouraged Netanyahu, who sees the glass as half full.
"They didn't condemn [my announcement]," he says.
"I remember that in the past, when we wanted to enclose even a single balcony in Gilo, we were excoriated. There was no condemnation or criticism here. There was a laconic statement that American plans had not changed. Then there was a press conference that said that Prime Minister Netanyahu's plan for the Jordan Valley and northern Dead Sea did not contradict the Trump peace plan. Anyone with eyes in their head can see that something very big is happening here. So it wasn't a warning sign. Everyone understands that because I spoke to them before making the announcement, they weren't surprised and put out the message they put out."
Ayman Odeh says, 'Netanyahu is the most dangerous person to Palestinian nationhood, because he can influence the US like no one else could.'
Q: Was the announcement in anticipation of a possible conflict with the American administration?
"All signs show that the 'deal of the century' will be announced right after the election. Who would the public prefer to see as prime minister – me, or Gantz and Lapid? Who will handle negotiations with President Trump over the deal? The choice here is very clear, in terms of the path, the experience, and the abilities. Their path is to knuckle under. To uproot 80,000 settlers and implement the lessons of the disengagement [from Gaza] in a better way next time around. For us, there will be no settlements uprooted and no disengagement. The opposite – I spent eight years working with the previous US administration to block its demand to uproot and retreat from the settlements. In the past three years, I have been laying the groundwork with this administration for a historical change. A change in the way Jewish history is going. From retreats to sovereignty.
"I've said that I'll try to apply Israel sovereignty [to settlements] in full cooperation with the US, so I'll wait until the president's plan is announced. But there is one step we can take immediately: to apply sovereignty to the Jordan Valley and northern Dead Sea, territory that is vital – with or without a plan – to Israel's future and about which there is broad public consensus. The truth is that I wanted to do it right now, now that conditions are right, but I was advised by the attorney general that a transitional government cannot take that step. We need a mandate from the public."
Netanyahu, who this week had a set-to with Joint Arab List chairman Ayman Odeh about a bill to put cameras in polling stations, counts Odeh as someone who appreciates his abilities.
"My ability to act on the international level was defined this week by none other than Ayman Odeh, who said, 'Netanyahu is the most dangerous person to Palestinian nationhood, because he can influence the US like no one else could.' And he laid it out. The US recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel – Netanyahu. The US Embassy being moved to Jerusalem – Netanyahu. Recognition of the Golan Heights – Netanyahu. US withdrawal from the nuclear deal – Netanyahu."
Q: So Odeh is your top campaigner?
"He's not the only one. Ahmad Tibi said that the plague called Netanyahu must be eradicated. He called me a 'plague.' These people understand one simple thing – what all the media outlets that threw themselves behind the Left in a disgraceful, Bolshevik manner understand – they understand that they need to topple the Right in order to get us back on the same old, outdated path of withdrawal and ineffectiveness. They understand that to topple the Right, they need to topple the Likud. To topple the Likud, they need to bring me down."
"I hear people say, 'I want to vote for Mr. Netanyahu. I'm not voting for Sara Netanyahu or Yair Netanyahu.' But they think they're being asked to vote for the entire family.
"That's true. But the venomous attacks, the like of which we've never seen, and their intensity, are intended to hurt me. The attack isn't aimed at me personally, but at everyone who is holding the Likud fort, the fortress of the Right. They think that whoever comes next won't lead Israel the same way, won't be able to move the international arena like I did. They want to bring back the narrative that has been in control here since the 1967 Six-Day War: that a terrible tragedy took place here. That we expanded our borders to the Jordan River. They want to withdraw to the banks of the Yarkon River [in Tel Aviv], and then God will smile on us."
From growth to an existential struggle
The do-over election forced on the citizens of Israel is the best example of the kind of political mess the government has been entangled in for some time. But Israel isn't alone, and all the important democratic countries, including the US and Britain, see similar entanglements that don't allow the government to function. In Israel, at least as far as the Likud and its leader are concerned, it's very clear who is behind the current situation.
"Avigdor Lieberman stole votes from us, no two ways about it. He misled his voters, the vast majority of whom wanted me to be prime minister. First, he brought down the government and then prevented the establishment of a coalition. We'll find our way out of this if enough people realize that we're in grave danger. That the Right is in danger. Right now, we're going to lose. According to the polls, Gantz and Lapid are ahead of the Likud, and there's a risk they will be entrusted to form the next government.
"What puts us at risk is that their bloc is bigger, because Lieberman needs to be counted with them. He has already said he'll join Gantz. He signed a surplus votes agreement with him. We saw that in the Knesset in the debate about the cameras. You saw that coalition. Ayman Odeh and Ahmad Tibi would be ministers in that government, and Lieberman is lending his hand to all that. The only way is to vote Likud. It doesn't matter if the [Yamina] list gets two seats more or two fewer seats. In any case, they'll pass the minimum threshold. But if the Likud loses a seat, or two or three, it's very dangerous for the entire bloc."
Q: We are seeing the rise of a lot of populist leaders in many countries: Trump, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro. Can you explain that? Are they a reaction to a democracy's inability to function?
"I think it's for other reasons. I don't think I would describe them as others do. The left-wing elite was entrenched. In most democratic countries, these elites have collected a lot of power, in the media and elsewhere. Academic bureaucracy. And the public is responding. That's happening with us, as well. But every country is different. I am a democrat with every fiber of my being. The Likud is the only democratic party in Israel."
Q: Your opponents' slogan is that you are a danger to democracy.
"They don't have freedom of choice. No pluralism. It's absurd. Other than that, how are we a danger to democracy – by wanting more variety in the media? By wanting to make it easier to enter the broadcast media? By turning the Histadrut [socialist] economy into a free market?"
Q: A kind of contradiction in Israeli society has emerged under your leadership. You created an economy that raised people's standard of living, but you create an atmosphere of national strife. Sometimes one of an emergency situation.
"I believe in liberal democracy, but one that knows how to defend itself. Otherwise, it collapses very quickly. Because the world isn't a nice place. If you aren't strong, you won't survive. I use the free economy not only to raise Israelis' standard of living, but also to give us the resources to develop our defense capabilities."
Dreams of an Israeli Fox News
But Netanyahu knows that to keep handling Iran, annexation, social rifts, and other issues as prime minister, he must devote the next four days to what is termed "draining votes" or "scare campaigns" or various other bon mots that have been used to death this past year.
"We have never been closer to a government of the Left and the Arabs," the prime minister warns.
"The public is brainwashed by the media, which has completely thrown itself behind that goal, because a lot of people on the Right think I'll win anyway. That's not true. It isn't clinched. People say they have election fatigue. When they get over it and realize that Benny Gantz and Yair Lapid are the prime ministers, they'll ask, 'Why didn't we vote for the Likud?'"
Q: You've talked about the media. You targeted Channel 12 reported Guy Peleg. Do you think it's right to do that?
"Certainly. If someone takes material and twists it, presents it one-sidedly, changes and edits it, what's the question? A free press means that people are also free to criticize it. Newspapers are free to criticize anyone. They aren't privileged. What, are they priests?"
I believe in liberal democracy, but one that knows how to defend itself
Q: Aren't you afraid that the 'rabble' could take it too far?
"But that's true about any criticism. When they attack and call you a 'plague,' talk filth about you, say that you're a cancer, and it's considered fair criticism. When you criticize their lack of balance and their bias, it's considered incitement. I don't buy the preaching from the hypocrites on the Left. I don't feel inferior to them at all. I don't need to keep my head down. I think that what they're doing is terrible for democracy. In that sense, Israel, which is a democratic country in every sense, lacks the variety in its media – particularly the broadcast media – that other countries have. That's a very serious flaw in our public life."
Q: How do you explain this? The more things have become privatized, the more they stay the same.
"Because foreign investment has been prevented and a cartel has arisen here. In general, the people who first made fortunes in Israel were only people with ties to the government. Ties to the left-wing government. The moment you don't open the market and leave that concentration in the hands of people on the left, this is what happens. Aside from that, there are laws that don't allow for a range of opinions. That exists in print journalism, which is not subject to regulatory restrictions. It doesn't exist in broadcast journalism. There, they let left-wingers keep control and operate under a system where friends bring in friends. Of course, they throw us some crumbs and few fig leaves, but that doesn't change the picture."
Q: Every media outlet has become the focus of a public storm – Army Radio, the Kan public broadcaster, and even Yedioth Ahronoth.
"They have a single direction. What's the dominant spirit? The Left. Where is the variety of opinions? Do we have an Israeli Fox News? Do we have right-wing radio like the US? There isn't anything like that. Everything is controlled, in a very sophisticated way, through a variety of methods, and there's no doubt that a big part of the media attacks against me stems from them having heard a few years back about my intention to promote changes to regulation so there can be competition. They are doing everything possible to hold onto centers of power and influence over the public."
