"I know what it's like to be bullied. I was bullied as a kid. I know what it is like to be different, we were the only Indian family in a small southern town, so every experience I felt that Israel was having in the UN was an experience I had felt." This sentence, more than anything else said by former US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley during our interview this week in New York, captures the essence of who she is and why she was such a forceful advocate of Israel at the UN during the first two years of the Trump administration. Her background and experience made her Israel's best friend and a kindred spirit long before she even thought of being on the world stage.
When she was ambassador, she was the superstar of the Trump administration, admired by practically all Israelis and celebrated as a hero by American Jews. During the interview, she kept telling me that her defense of Israel at the UN was not just about standing by America's friend, it was about standing up for America. She noted that one of the low moments for the United States at the international body was when, under President Barack Obama, it let the Security Council pass Resolution 2334, which declared Israel's presence beyond the Green Line, even in east Jerusalem, as illegal.
"I think that Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon was fighting a good fight but he was fighting alone. And this had come after a time in which the US had let Israel down terribly. So I thought we needed to let them know that on my watch this was never going to happen again. And not only not let it happen again, but also fight it so that no one else would do that, to make sure everyone saw Israel for what it is; the strength and power of what it is, the voice of values that it is, and our friend. For me, it was very important to do this not just for Israel but also for the US. ... If we would do that to one of our best friends, why would any country trust us? For me it was more than just about Israel, it was about the reputation of America."
On June 27, Haley will be the guest of honor at the first Israel Hayom Forum for US-Israel Relations in Jerusalem. I met Haley at the offices of Stand for America, a new organization she founded upon leaving office.
The organization promotes US values across the world, championing the things that have long been associated with America: freedom, free markets, creativity and more. On its website, it calls itself an "an advocacy group promoting public policies that strengthen America's economy, culture, and national security."
Haley may no longer be in the UN, but she knows what soft power, diplomacy and leadership can do and she is determined to use her own experience to make America, and the world, better.
Her background, as the first minority governor of South Carolina and the first female governor of that state, as someone who beat the odds despite being discriminated against in her youth, makes her an embodiment of the American Dream. In fact, even before she was UN Ambassador she proved to be a force to be reckoned with.
Her rise to national prominence came when she successfully formed a coalition to remove the controversial Confederate battle flag from the state's capitol grounds, right after the tragic shooting at a church in Charleston. The fact that she managed to do something that had eluded her predecessors while turning controversy into consensus, won her plaudits across the board.
Her unifying and gracious conduct in the wake of the shooting, which saw 9 African American slaughtered in a house of worship, showed just how much potential she has as a leader. She has recently written about her life and experience. Her book, "With All Due Respect" comes out November 12.
Although no longer a member of the Trump administration, she is well aware of what it has in mind when it comes to the Middle East, and says Israel should embrace its peace efforts.
Q: Later this month, the administration will roll out the economic component of its peace plan. Some in Israel are worried that the US would want something from Israel in return for recognizing Jerusalem as its capital and recognizing its sovereignty over the Golan Heights. Should Israel be worried about the peace plan?
"Israel should not be worried. Because through the Middle East plan, one of the main goals that [Senior Adviser to the president] Jared Kushner and [US Special Representative for International Negotiations] Jason Greenblatt focused on was not to hurt the national security interests of Israel. They understand the importance of security, they understand the importance of keeping Israel safe. I think everybody needs to go into it with an open mind, everybody should want a peace plan. Everybody should want to make way for a better situation in Israel and I think it can happen. So rather than pushing back against what we don't know, I hope everybody would lean in on what the possibilities of what the peace plan could look like, and think of a better life for everyone."
Q: Knowing the two sides and all the actors in the Middle East, does the peace plan have a chance?
"I am an optimist. It's not going to be easy. Both sides won't love it. And both sides won't hate it. But both sides have to want peace. And if they do, they will be deciding the details – not the US. And I think it is worth taking that chance. It is worth trying for. At this point, it is hard to see an opportunity in which Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is even going to come to the table, and I think that … it shows Abbas' true colors. It shows the Arab community's true colors, that they [the Arab states] don't really care about the Palestinians, because if the Palestinians were that much of a priority, everybody would be holding Abbas' hand and leading him to the table. Everybody and Abbas himself would want better."
Q: Are you familiar with some of the details of the peace plan?
"I have read the plan, yes."
Q: So you shared your opinion and advice on it?
"I read the plan and think it is very thoughtful, and very well done and it very much takes into account both sides' vulnerabilities and both sides' wants. I think we should give it a chance."
Q: To those who say that Israeli PM Netanyahu doesn't want peace, what would you say?
"I haven't had this conversation with the prime minister, but my assumption is he would want peace. My assumption is that every Israeli would want peace and that every Palestinian would want peace, but again, I would say to the PM the same thing that I have said to President Abbas: 'Come to the table, see what it is about, and just have a dialogue.'"
Q: Do you agree with US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman, who said that the Golan Heights would most likely never go back to Syria?
"I think that is probably a very real fact. The people in the Golan Heights don't want to go back to Syria. I think that is one of the first things, I think that no one wants to do any favors to Assad, no one wants to help Syria at this point. So I don't anticipate there being any change."
Q: A year ago President Trump told me that the decision to recognize Jerusalem was one of the most important decisions he made in his first year. But since then he made some other decisions. Where would you put that decision in the grand scheme of things?
"I think that he has had a lot of accomplishments. I don't want to rank them. What I will tell you is that was a true sign of courage. Because a lot of his cabinet was not in favor of the embassy move, and he didn't listen to the naysayers, he didn't listen to the ones who said the sky was going to fall. He basically looked at the situation and wanted to acknowledge the fact ... Palestinians needed to acknowledge the truth that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Arab community needed to acknowledge the truth to the Palestinians that yes, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. If you don't acknowledge the truth you cannot get to the solution."
Q: In 2015, President Barack Obama concluded the nuclear deal with Iran. When you were appointed as an ambassador, did you immediately realize it was a bad deal?
"Absolutely. We went to the International Atomic Energy Agency specifically to find out how the deal was being implemented, how the inspections were being conducted, what was happening, and what this came down to was – the coalition literally gave Iran a plane full of money, and in return for that, not only did they not stop their bad behavior, their tentacles went far. So now all of a sudden they were supporting terrorism in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen. It went everywhere. The goal of pulling out of the Iran deal, not that we could change their bad habits, but that without the money we could stop a lot of that support for terrorism. And I think you have seen that in the last couple of weeks. Hezbollah now is not getting the support from Iran that it was getting, soldiers in Syria are not getting paid like they were from Iran, and now we have to figure out where we go from here."
Q: What is the secret for the good relations between Netanyahu and President Trump?
"I think that they are both strong men. I think that they both realize that the threats around the world are there. I think they are each stronger by having each other and they are both using that to better both their countries."
Q: You will be the keynote speaker at the Israel Hayom Forum for US-Israel Relations later this month. Is Israel an ally, a friend, a true partner?
"I think Israel is family, I think we see them as brothers and sisters. I think we seem them as partners, as allies, as friends. In every aspect, I think Israel is family. And sometimes we don't agree with our brothers and sisters, but we never leave our brothers and sisters. We will always have a special bond that will hold us together. But we have to continue to strengthen that."
Q: You were a fighter for Israel at the UN. Did you have the same passion about us before you became ambassador?
I really didn't know that much about Israel. My passion has always been to fight for people who cannot fight for themselves, or to stand up for those who have been mistreated. You know, why not me. Someone needed to speak up for Israel, someone needed to speak up for how ridiculous the UN was, and someone needed to speak up for a very good friend of the United States, who shares the same values, who is a bright light in a tough neighborhood, and so, why not step up, that was the right thing to do. It was a very natural thing.
Q: During that time at the UN, did some of the countries that speak loudly against Israel, say something different behind closed doors?
"There were some Arab countries that I really called to the table on the fact that there were complaining about other things that were happening, about the Houthis [the rebel group in Yemen backed by Iran], about some other terrorist groups and why no one was doing anything. And I remember going to them and telling them, 'That is the exact same argument I can give for Hamas when it comes to Israel. Why is it different?' And for the first time they admitted to me behind closed doors, that I was right but that they had to do this for their constituencies."
Q: Do you think I will hear the same answer from the 23 Democrats running for president?
"I would love to know what their answers are. I challenge you to do that."
Q: Is the Democratic Party no longer pro-Israel?
"I will not try to speak for the Democrats. I will tell you that Israel should not be a partisan issue. If American values are true for both Republicans and Democrats, then Israeli values should be true for Democrats and Republicans."
Haley has refused to reveal whether she has any political ambitions, but says that right now she just wants a break from public service. There is speculation that in 2024 she might throw her hat in the ring and run for president, but for now, she has made it clear that she likes being a private citizen.
Q: In 2016, an important paper in America said a week before the presidential election that America has a 95% chance of getting a woman president. Perhaps the article should have been printed eight years later?
"The United States will have a woman president but it will only be when it is the right woman to be president."
Q: Am I interviewing her?
"Is there someone else here?" she said, laughing.
Q: How is life outside the United Nations?
"It is nice to be a private citizen for the first time in eight years. That has been really nice, to bring the stress level down. But the issue I care about didn't go away, and the issues that I fought for are still very strong."
Q: Is the UN an important institution?
"I think the question is, does the UN want to be an important institution. Right now it is very wasteful and very bureaucratic, it can be strongly anti-US and clearly anti-Israel. So what I said to the secretary general and what I said to the ambassadors when I left, was, 'The sustainability of the UN depends on those elements.' If they change with the times, the UN will be relevant. If they start talking about things that are uncomfortable to talk about instead of the decades-old problems that we have always talked about, they can possibly move, but if they continue going down the path they are on, it's very hard to see how they'll continue with effect. We saw how we were able to change the culture, we saw that we were able to make some changes, but it was a drop in the bucket, and the UN has to be – they have to have the courage to say, 'This is not what it was when we started and we now have to change with the times."
Q: Is hypocrisy part of the DNA of the organization?
"I think it's history that formed the DNA of the institution. I think history and circumstances started the way they conducted themselves, and then I think politics took over. I think many countries wanted to have their tentacles throughout the UN, many want to push their political agenda through the UN, many countries wanted to find their power and dominance in the UN, so suddenly, the UN became what they wanted it to become, rather than a truly multilateral place for peace, and I think ... you can see that the Arab community continues to prop up the Palestinians, making them think they are a priority, by just putting out resolutions that literally don't mean anything but are just anti-Israeli. We have seen what happened with the Human Rights Council, it's a joke it's not something credible anymore. So I think it is interesting to see what the UN has become, because if the UN is not careful, it will become the operational point for all the bad actors."
Q: Trump said he wanted to make America great again. So was that slogan part of what you wanted to do at the UN, instead of leading from behind, as Obama preferred?
"It's interesting because so many people took offense to the president saying, make America great again, but what ambassadors told me was that they could not understand why people were offended, because France thinks they should make France great again, and the UK wants to make the UK great again. China wants to make China great, so every country obviously wants to make itself stronger, and you want to lead. And I think for the US – the US has been quiet for several years at the UN, and we wanted to have a strong voice, we wanted to know what the US was for and what the US was against, and not have any grey area, so for us – yes, we want to make America great again, but if America is great, then the world benefits."
Q: How did the president react when you announced your resignation?
"He knew several months before that I had made the comment that I thought that I was going to grow out of the position. And at that time he said, 'no no no, we will do something else,' so when I told him it was time, he said, 'time for what?' And I said, 'Time for me to leave,' and he said, 'No not yet.' So he was very gracious about it, and he offered to help me find something else, but that wasn't it; it was about the fact that I just needed to take a step back from the government. He was very kind and appreciative and also very supportive, and I was grateful for him, he gave me the ability to serve the country I love so much."
