Maj. Gen. (res.) Tal Russo is officially in charge of refreshing the Labor party. His foray into politics breathed new life into a battered party that was hovering barely above the minimum electoral threshold, and could be remembered as a turning point that saved it from extinction.
Russo, who says that he is a lifelong Labor voter ("I always thought about other options, but somehow – other than one time when I voted for another party out of pity, at the moment of truth I always put a Labor ballot into the box"), admits that if anyone had told him a year ago that he'd become a politician, he'd have thought they were crazy, "even if I always had offers."
Q: From whom?
"All the parties courted me. I was never a political figure, so they really didn't know what my positions were, and everyone approached me: from the Right and the New Right, which didn't yet exist, to Labor, and everyone in between. But until two months ago, I had an excellent excuse – the mandatory [three-year] cooling-off period after my military service."
Q: So why now?
"I was pretty locked into 'no.' I thought of continuing to do what I'd done – 50% philanthropy and 50% business. I'd already joined a big American company and everything was going great, but what was happening in the country lit a fire in me."
Q: What, exactly?
"Where this country was headed, especially the schisms between us. Between Jews and Arabs, religious and secular, Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews. It's true in every field. There is no leadership here, no initiative. Just like I went back to the army, to lead, I came now, because we can't go on this way, when it's all putting out fires."
The Likud – like a herd of sheep
Russo kept Labor leader Avi Gabby waiting for quite a while before saying yes. Along the way, he consulted with a close circle of family and friends, who are still at his side. Everyone, Russo says, supported him wholeheartedly. In the end, he made the decision on his own.
Q: There's a lot of criticism of Avi Gabbay, [from] Tzipi Livni, Shelly Yachimovich, and others.
"I looked into whether I could work with him. I had tough questions for him. We talked about Tzipi, too. I got good answers and found a man who understands his mistakes, how they happened, and mainly, a man who can lead."
Q: Can he share?
"With me, he tries. We talk about everything. It's not that we agree on everything, but that's OK."
Q: Were you surprised at how warmly you were received?
"The responses have been amazing. [Politics] is a cynical world that's very different from what I was raised on, and I needed to shift my thinking. But that's also the reason why I entered politics: to unite, to connect, to hold a different kind of discourse. That's also true of [Habayit Hayehudi leader] Rabbi Rafi Peretz, who is a good friend of mine."
Q: And how do you see his merger with Otzma Yehudit?
"It's a disaster. Terrible. In general, I think that the extremism on both sides is bad. But that won't stop me from keeping in touch with him [Peretz]."
Q: You came from a world in which everything is well-ordered. A command is a command, people are people, a mission is a mission. Everything is different in politics. There are lies and cynicism and mudslinging and slander. It's all very foreign to you and what you know.
"All my life, I knew that anything was possible, that you'll get to wherever you mark an X. That's true in the army because it's part of the military DNA that anything is possible. … I'm not the story, it's about where the country will be in the future. Every day I discover that the situation here is much worse than I thought."
Q: Be specific.
"Everything here needs to be changed. Even if they bring Bibi down, it will take a long time to recover on every issue – corruption, money, budgets. So many things are handled ineptly here. It's true than on the macro level, the Israeli economy is in excellent shape, but when you delve into it, it turns out to be a pool of corruption because, what can you do, power corrupts."
Q: Is Netanyahu corrupt?
"Netanyahu is corrupt. Listen, I was in the General Staff for 12 years, up until the Olmert government. When Netanyahu got started, things were much more to the point with him in terms of what could contribute to the country. Now everything is about personal loyalty."
Q: As someone who was the head of IDF operations, is there corruption in the submarines affair?
"It wasn't clean, and can't be clean. Everyone involved in the affair are the people closest to the prime minister, and I know the prime minister, and he's a control freak. He controls everything. Was he kept out of the loop? Impossible. So I'm saying, even if there isn't an indictment, I know that he knew. He can't not have. It's an insult to say he didn't know anything."
Q: Is the entire establishment like that?
"In my opinion, he carried the herd of sheep after him. Look at how the [Likud] campaign is being run. All the Likud is like sheep. They walk around with talking points, read what Bibi gives them."
Q: You don't have talking points?
"There are messages, but I have freedom. I don't need to agree with everything. You don't follow along like a member of the herd. With us, you'll hear different opinions, much more varied."
Q: Do you feel uncomfortable attacking your former colleagues, former chiefs of staff Benny Gantz, Moshe Ya'alon, and Gabi Ashkenazi?
"In general, I try to make personal attacks as little as possible. About the direction – yes; about principles; but why make personal attacks against someone who still hasn't gone anywhere in politics?"
Q: Nevertheless, they're a threat to Labor.
"I expected those guys, three generals and Yair Lapid, to take seats away from the Right. I think they failed to. In the end, the sector that votes for Bibi almost hasn't changed, and it looks like no amount of indictments will make any difference. So they [Blue and White] turned their focus inward, and I think it's been a disaster for Labor and the center-left bloc, because what is happening is that people are being taken out for the sake of someone who could wind up being Likud II."
Q: Do you think Blue and White will sit in a coalition with Netanyahu?
"Yes. Because they have to be part of the coalition. And that's dangerous because then we haven't changed anything. So the solution is the Labor party, which has a solid path and a group of members with great parliamentary experience and a lot of variety."
Q: You said Labor would recommend Gantz for prime minister. You know him better than most of us do. Is he ready to be prime minister? Can he do it?
"No one is born to be prime minister. It's like being chief of staff – it doesn't matter how much you prepare, not even if you were deputy chief of staff and spent years as an officer and a general. Until you sit there and bear the 10-ton weight of responsibility, you're not there, and there's no real preparation for that."
Q: You didn't answer. Is Gantz qualified to be prime minister?
"I think so, and I believe so. I said that no one is born to be prime minister or a chief of staff, but you learn. You have no choice. You're in it, and you learn quickly, and you have a support system."
Q: And what do you say about the affair of Gantz's hacked cellphone?
"It's spin designed to move the big issues off the agenda. It certainly won't be what keeps him from being prime minister. A few months ago, even before I got into politics, Hamas opened a Facebook account in my name. That's the world and you need to deal with it, but it's bizarre to make it [the cellphone hack] into a major issue."
They'll always blame Labor
Russo is well aware of Labor's dreary situation. He knows that certain audiences will always reject it outright and that there is a vast discrepancy between the warmth he receives and how off-putting the party he represents is for many people. He thinks that this is part of a stigma that was created and is being fed by political opponents, who he says have "put it into the public's mind."
Q: Give an example
"Even today, people are saying things like, 'How could you sign the Oslo Accords." Since then, the Likud has been in power for 25 years, and if the Oslo Accords were so bad it could have changed them, but the fact is, it hasn't. Everything they say is bad – the media, the legal system – they blame on the Labor party. It's not serious."
Q: And you think you'll manage to change that?
"I hope so. In Israel, two weeks is an eternity, and every moment something security-related or some scandal can pop up. People are like reeds and they sway from side to side. But I'm sure that the results of the election won't be what we're seeing right now in the polls, even though I can't predict which way they'll go."
Q: So, will Labor grow or shrink?
"There is only one direction for the Labor party – growth."
Q: Why are you so sure? If it turns into Gantz vs. Netanyahu, each one will sap votes from their respective blocs.
"That's one of our vulnerabilities, that everyone is focused on the battle of the Benjamins, and even when you have a clear path and platform and good ideas, no one really lets you on to center stage. But I think things are going in a positive direction. That's what I feel in the field."
Russo, a former GOC Southern Command, is a field guy. He spends a lot of time touring, much of it in communities near the Gaza Strip, with his standing coffee order. He meets people, listens, and talks. He has long since managed to overcome a spate of tension between him and the residents of southern Israel, which was caused by him being incorrectly quoted.
"We need to find a solution for them, come up with a plan. You can't continue this reactive policy of putting out fires. We could make things a lot easier for them … but you need to be active," he says.
Q: Is that happening?
"Not enough. They're on the front lines."
Q: Their problem won't be solved until the problem of Gaza is solved.
"Gaza is a pressure cooker that we aren't finding answers for. On one hand, we need to fight terrorism harder, but on the other, we need to reduce tension among civilians through projects and humanitarian aid that will make things a tiny bit better there."
Q: That isn't happening now?
"The opposite: Right now, there are no policies. Look at the situation in Gaza – 55% unemployment, undrinkable water; no electricity. Whom do they take that out on? Not on Hamas."
Q: Would you give them money?
"Not the way [Israel does now.] That's hush money."
Q: Would you hold talks with Hamas?
"First of all, I'd give [PA President Mahmoud] Abbas a platform. That's how we worked for years, and it isn't happening today because there's no policy. Every minute, we change course – Abbas, Hamas, then someone else. It isn't working. We need to build something serious, over the long term. That doesn't mean that the Gaza problem will be solved by the morning, but if we don't take the first step and lead in some direction we don't get anywhere, and the pressure cooker will blow up in our faces."
Incitement as a tactic
Russo, as a Labor man, doesn't shrink from the word "peace," which has become almost a bad word.
"We always said 'Security first,' which gives us the strength to extend our hand in peace. I grew up with the view that you need to lead, and not be the result. Today, there are no policies. If Oslo was so bad – why wasn't it canceled? If Judea and Samaria are the solution, why weren't they annexed under the most right-wing government we've had here? But really, that's not the main thing. I'm afraid of the divisiveness here, that we might lose equality and democracy. Look how people are coming down on the courts, on the media, on the police. We are annihilating the Declaration of Independence."
Q: Peace?
"We need to build our borders how we want them, lay them down ourselves. If we don't lead on that, we'll suddenly find ourselves with Trump's 'deal of the century.'"
Q: As someone who oversaw the disengagement from four settlements in northern Samaria during the 2005 disengagement from Gaza, is another disengagement something you would consider?
"There will be places we'll have to evacuate. Not the settlement blocs, not the extent we saw in Gush Katif. I'm talking about isolated outposts. It's complicated, but we need to make a move."
Q: You aren't afraid that if you say that, you'll be portrayed as a leftist and an enemy of the people?
"They portrayed people horribly. Take former police chief Roni Alsheikh. No matter how you look at it, he's no leftist. I worked with him a lot. He's a smart, logical, honest guy. The moment he stuck to upholding the law when it didn't suit some people, they started to jump all over him. I know that will happen with me, too. If we don't change this regime and this prime minister, it will definitely happen. They'll incite against me, but that won't stop me."
Q: Do you have anything to hide? Anything you wouldn't want to get out?
"Not that I know of, but maybe I'll learn some new things about myself. Today, anything is possible, and that's exactly the reason why we need change. And that's why I agreed to go outside my comfort zone."
Q: What role would you like to have in a new government?
"Everything interests me – from security and defense, where I'm definitely prominent – to education and agriculture and settlement."
Q: And if Labor isn't part of the next government, are you built to be a backbench MK in the opposition?
"I've never been there. I need to learn about it, but that will happen after April 9. First of all, we need to win."
Q: What do you consider a win?
"For us to make this a better country, and for that, we need a strong Labor party that has as many seats and as much power as possible."
