The ginger lemon tea that Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan sips before we start the interview doesn't seem to do much in the way of improving his hoarse voice, a problem he's been dealing with for about a month now. What does seem to do the trick is to have Erdan talk about his work, politics and the ministry he heads. A desire to ensure that justice is served, as well as the investigations into Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – these are the issues that get his adrenaline pumping. As for the investigations involving the prime minister, Erdan suggests allowing Netanyahu to confront the state witnesses, who have certainly played a central role in the story.
"In my opinion," Erdan says, Netanyahu "should get a response to this demand now, even if the State Attorney's Office has refused in the past because it is in the interest of the entire public."
Erdan is a senior member of the Likud party who, along with his fellow Likud officials, is preparing for the upcoming elections. Asked about the various political factions that are breaking up and the new parties being formed, Erdan says: "The people will very quickly understand that all these parties are creating false messiahs and instant leaders. They won't provide the goods. [Labor party leader Avi] Gabbay and [Yesh Atid party leader Yair] Lapid are the leaders of the supposed center-Left. The same is true of those masquerading as the Right, like [Israel Resilience Party leader Benny] Gantz and [Telem party leader Moshe] Ya'alon, though it's doubtful it's worth talking about them – we are still not talking about the leadership of the state.
Q: What about the New Right party, headed by Naftali Bennet and Ayelet Shaked, formerly of Habayit Hayehudi?
"That's not new either. I am friendly with Bennett and Shaked, but the party is not concerned about the Right unless there is something threatening the Right. In any case, this time, because of the huge gap between the prime minister and the others vying for the crown, it will be easier for us to highlight the differences between the Likud and all the other parties.
Q: What is behind the Likud's attacks on Gantz?
"We need to deal with Gantz because obviously, his strategy is to hold off from making his positions public for as long as possible. In the 2013 election, the Likud focused on sharpening its messages against the outspoken Left and left Lapid alone till the last minute. By the time they remembered to deal with him, he was about to garner 19 Knesset seats. I think we need to demand that Gantz reveal his positions as quickly as possible. He may be a security guy, but we cannot allow him to mislead the public. The public needs to know what his positions are on issues like a unified Jerusalem and a Palestinian state."
Q: You were a member of the cabinet when Gantz was IDF chief of staff. You must know what his positions are.
"I don't want to grade anyone. We have the comptroller's report for that. I do criticize him for concealing his positions."
Q: Still, how is it that the polls have projected him winning 10-16 Knesset seats without saying a word.
"In Israel, military figures have a certain halo hovering over their heads, some of which is justified because they've been fighting for Israel's security their entire lives. The gimmick of having a military figure who the public is supposed to trust but doesn't delve deep into diplomatic and economic issues take down a right-wing government worked for [former Prime Minister Ehud] Barak, but in the final test, it didn't prove effective.
Q: How many Knesset seats do you believe the Likud will get?
"I believe 30 Knesset seats is the baseline, and we'll expand from there."
Multiple parties are a bad idea
One of the central questions that repeatedly comes up in the media is the seemingly obvious connection between Likud and the New Right. Asked about this, Erdan says, "I believe the day will come when the Likud will be big enough that it will encompass all the [political] streams. In the United States, two parties are enough. With us, multiple parties are bad for the state, for governance, for stability. Take for example the issue of the bill [that would shield an incumbent prime minister from prosecution]. We couldn't pass it because the center-right is split, and suddenly [Kulanu party chief Moshe] Kahlon didn't want to support it."
Q: But this government is considered the most right-wing ever.
"Apparently it wasn't right-wing enough."
Q: Can there be a more right-wing government than this one?
"Yes. If there were Knesset seats for the Likud instead of Kahlon's party."
Q: Kahlon is a leftist?
"He served as the deciding factor [in the coalition government] and sent mixed messages."
Q: Are you saying he leaned Left?
"Within the government and the Likud, of course, there are those elements that are more to the Right and there are those that are more to the center; Kahlon is more centrist. He stalled and kept us from advancing issues that are important to the nationalist camp."
Q: The right-wing government couldn't get the illegal Bedouin encampment of Khan al-Ahmar evacuated, but it did succeed in evacuating the Samarian outpost of Amona.
"The decision not to evacuate Khan al-Ahmar is wrong. I prepared the police forces. They were waiting for an order. They still are. I hope the prime minister will make the decision soon."
Q: The prime minister is the one preventing the implementation of right-wing decisions in a right-wing government?
"He has succeeded in navigating things in such a way that even during the Obama era, settlements in Judea and Samaria continued to expand. He is prime minister in one of the most difficult periods when it comes to changes in the Arab world, and still, we have racked up many achievements. No political leader comes close to half of the support the prime minister has."
Q: What was this government unable to achieve?
"We haven't dealt sufficiently with the issue of the balance between elected officials and the judicial system. Just recently [former Supreme Court] Justice Aharon Barak turned to his 'justice brothers' and said they needed to join the war against the 'forces of evil.' He led a legal revolution that we see in the courts' excessive intervention in the decisions of elected officials to this day. That is the central issue that we haven't sufficiently addressed, not in terms of punishment but in terms of the Knesset's democratic decisions. The legal system has intervened and blocked legislative initiatives, like the nation-state law and illegal migrants law. The intervention in the decision not to allow [BDS proponent] Lara Alqasem to enter Israel.
"I say unequivocally: The stronger the Likud is, the more we can pass these kinds of legal initiatives. Moreover, in the next coalition we won't allow any party that doesn't sign off in advance that it will support legislative initiatives that focus on restoring power to elected officials that the courts have co-opted, says Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan.party into the coalition that doesn't sign in advance that it will support legislative initiatives that focus on restoring power to elected officials.
"We heard [former Supreme Court] Justice [Eliyahu] Matza this week, who said that Netanyahu's remarks are like those of a mafia organization. That teaches us that just because a person sits on the judge's bench doesn't prevent him from talking nonsense. And who dares to make such criticism? They say Netanyahu incites. When they, the justices, don't know how to make a substantive argument, every criticism is incitement."
And what about Erdan's political future?
"Right now, I'm dedicated to the Likud's victory. As long as the public supports Netanyahu, he will continue in his role. All those who see themselves as [future] candidates [for the job], myself included, need to wait patiently. I have personal ambitions, but I've always been a team player who will do anything for the team as soon as he gets on the field."
"He made a mistake"
During Erdan's time as public security minister, there have headlines about the Public Security Ministry's authority over the Israel Police.
Q: When you informed former Israel Police Chief Roni Alsheikh you wouldn't be extending his tenure, did he try to convince you to let him stay on another year?
"He didn't try to convince me. He expressed his desire for another year."
Q: You have been critical of the police on more than one occasion.
"A minister is not supposed to offer automatic support in every instance. I thought that arresting and handcuffing [Labor party political strategist] Eldad Yaniv was a mistake, as was hiring a political consultant like [police media adviser] Lior Horev, whose professional history is with political entities. At a time when investigations are underway, that's a serious mistake. I also agree that the police chief's remarks on the investigations into the prime minister were not helpful. I thought the interview on [the investigative television newsmagazine] 'Uvda' was a mistake."
Q: Did Alsheikh have it in for the prime minister?
"I can't answer that question. I don't know. The decisions on the issue were made by the attorney general [Avichai Mendelblit] and the State Attorney's Office."
Q: You had three contenders for chief of police. What happened?
"I can't go into detail. All I can say is that it had to do with the problem of the balance of powers that has been broken and hampers the ability of elected officials to govern by excessive intervention from legal authorities. Ministers that need to make a decision on senior appointments need to decide on two points; who is deserving and how likely they are to meet the criteria of suitability for the position."
Q: When you were appointed public security minister, you said improving the image of the police would be a priority. Nothing has changed on that front. Where do you think you went wrong?
"The job of the police, like the job of the public security minister, is a thankless one. Everyone at some point in their lives will have a run-in with a cop who didn't speak nicely to them or made a mistake. Add to that the fact that now everything is on camera, and every mistake a police officer makes out in the field makes front page headlines. But during this tenure, trust in the police is on the rise."
Naturally, Erdan is proud of the work his ministry has done. He cites achievements in bringing down the number of lone-wolf terror attacks, strengthening the Jerusalem District Police, the opening of police stations in the Arab sector, changing the guidelines for opening fire and outlawing the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement.
"Also in the Israel Prisons Service, we targeted holding conditions of terrorists," he says.
"I stopped the visits by Hamas members from the Gaza Strip and Arab MKs to terrorists, I kept them from watching TV shows. I dealt with the longest strike by terrorist prisoners in history. They got nothing."
Q: Won't people remember you for your failed police chief appointments?
"We need to distinguish between the media and the public. When I am at events, meeting with the public every night, I am met with understanding on the issue of how various elements thwart appointments."
Q: In Gal Hirsch's case, there were requests for judicial inquiries about him and nothing was done. He was almost appointed police chief.
"There are those who correctly argue that we investigate things now that weren't investigated in the past. I think if someone else from inside the police had a case [against him] like Hirsch's, it would have been closed."
Erdan does not spare the State Attorney's Office, which appointed an investigative committee to deliberate Hirsch's case, from criticism.
"When a minister seeks to appoint someone to a senior position, you need to make an effort to finish the investigation quickly. Hirsch cooperated. Three and a half years [have passed], and they still haven't finished the investigation. Everyone should be concerned by that."
Q: Do you think police officers framed Gil Hirsch?
"That's a possibility. When an incident like this happens, you need to do everything you can so that the investigation is concluded – not ease up."
Q: Is there a possibility of Hirsch becoming chief of police?
"I spoke with the prime minister about reserving him a spot on the Likud list. In terms of his qualifications, he could be the chief of police."
