The most interesting part of the interview came at the end, when Rabbi Berel Lazar stopped me on my way to the door and said to me "you know that there is no leadership on the Israeli Right today. Right?"
"What about Benjamin Netanyahu?" I wondered.
"One," he replied. "He is truly special, one of a kind, but who will succeed him?" He laid out his outlook, explaining that the Israeli prime minister needs to make room for powerful people to grow around him. He needs to teach them how to lead, how to determine policy and make decisions. How to negotiate. He needs to worry about who comes next because if he doesn't, no one will come next. "I've seen many great leaders who were very powerful, but power doesn't guarantee succession."
As I made my way back to Israel, after bidding farewell to the educational empire that Chabad has established in Moscow, and in Russia in general, I thought to myself that the rabbi's remarks were also a reflection of the Chabad movement itself – a grand movement that failed to groom a successor for its final revered leader, leaving its followers to quibble over the leader's existential status. Lazar's stance on the matter is clear and rational, incidentally, but let us not get ahead of ourselves.
I arrived in Moscow as the Jewish year was drawing to a close, to meet with Russia's chief rabbi, Shlomo Dovber Pinchas Lazar, better known as Berel Lazar. "You're going to love him," my editor told me. "You won't be able to stop talking with him."
Then I discovered that he was born in Italy and that besides his vast knowledge of the Torah and Jewish law he is also a Renaissance man, possessing a well-rounded general education. On the night we met, we talked about such varied topics as Dante's "Divine Comedy," which he read in the original Italian, the difference between Homer's "Odyssey" and "Iliad," and Italian poetry, which the rabbi described as the most beautiful poetry he has ever encountered.
We talked about the weekly Torah portion, and the rabbi gave his profound hassidic and kabbalistic interpretation, citing the power of the individual, while I gave my take on the same portion, quoting Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook's interpretation in regard to the power of the nation. And thus, between drinks, I got familiar with one of Russian Jewry's most important leaders. A man whose influence extends to the Russian government, not as a traditional Jewish lobbyist but as a proud, Jewish intellectual – a man whose opinions on current affairs are sought by the regime.
At the time of my meeting with Lazar, it was reported in the media that he had visited Iran with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and that he had visited the Jewish community there. Lazar declined to elaborate on this. He said only that in recent years, Iranian Jews had visited Russia and recounted that the religious situation in the Iranian Jewish community was "ok." There is full religious freedom. However, he says, Iran's Jews are disconnected from the rest of the Jewish world. They have no ties with any other Jewish community.
"We are trying to help them," he said. "Provide them with etrogim, tefillin, mezuzot, etc." He added that Jewish education is available in Iran, but there simply aren't enough books. Young Jews there truly want to establish a community and study Judaism – something that hadn't existed before. Do they want to leave Iran? Lazar contended that he didn't talk to them about that. He only tries to help. "What they do down the line is their decision." His reluctance to elaborate is understandable.
Not a crisis, a lesson
Q: Rabbi Lazar, a lot of opinions have been voiced about the current crisis between Israel and Russia. How do you see it? The Syrians shoot down a Russian plane and the Jews are to blame?
"What President Putin said, his words, are the only thing that counts in this country. It pains me to hear the Russian Defense Ministry say what it did but all things considered, Putin's remarks carry a lot more weight than anything else that was said. He was very clear: Lessons need to be learned from this incident, and everything needs to be done to prevent such an incident from recurring. He said explicitly that this was nothing like the Russian aircraft that was shot down by Turkey.
"Clearly this is a painful tragedy. In war, especially considering the delicate situation in Syria, accidents happen, but no one wanted it to happen. It is obvious from the president's remarks that Israel had no intention of harming Russia. This was a mistake and lessons need to be learned from it. When a commercial airplane crashes, flights don't stop – we learn from our mistakes so that it doesn't happen again. That's the key. People can blame people, but when they realize it's not the case, they back down. I know that today, there is full cooperation between Israel and Russia in regard to Syria."
Q: How would you advise Israel to manage the crisis with Russia?
"Israel needs to know that Russia is defending Israel's border and that Russia understands the responsibility it has in the region in regard to protecting Israel's interests, among other things. I honestly believe that the Russians don't want Israel to pay a price for what's happening in Syria. A very complicated reality has emerged with Iran, Turkey and Syria, which do not get along with one another. Israel has been dragged into this game against its will, simply because it has no choice. Russia understands that it needs to accept responsibility for this situation. It is important to maintain these understandings.
"The most important thing is that the more involved Russia becomes in what's happening, it needs to feel trusted and that we want to see it really take responsibility. Russia entered Syria for a reason. It understood that Syria was hanging by a thread and could erupt at any minute with ISIS and other terrorist organizations. When it comes to combating terrorism and stabilizing the region, Russia and Israel are of the same mind. They have a common enemy: Terror. It will be difficult to overcome it without total cooperation."
Q: As a Chabad emissary, how did you happen upon the "Divine Comedy,"
"Iliad" and "Odyssey" and other Western treasures?
"In the same way that my children came to Russia as part of my work, and today they feel completely Russian, even patriotic. It's part of the Chabad philosophy – to arrive in a place and not feel like strangers. My children grew up in Russia, and I was raised in Italy. My parents spoke Italian at home. We went to a Jewish school, of course, but they made sure to provide us a general education alongside the Jewish education. There, I learned about Western culture. I passed all the tests that are required by Italian law, the same way our children here matriculate in the Russian education system. That's the objective of our work, to connect to a place, live in the same way that the locals live, speak their language, feel them."
Q: Is that a common thing, then, for Chabad members to integrate into the education system and the culture of places where they work as emissaries?
"For the Lubavitcher rebbe [the late Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson], it wasn't just a vision, it was a reality. There is no such thing as a Jew from this place or that place. We are all Jews. Wherever a Jew lives, he is connected to the place. That's why it is important for us not only to go on missions to places but also to fully connect. I remember when we came here in the early 90s, someone asked me, 'How long are you here for?' I said, 'I'm here on a mission.' But he insisted, repeating, 'But for how long?' I replied, 'For the rest of my life.' When he heard that, he said to me, 'Then you're one of us.' I came here to live, my children will live here, my future is here. As one of my colleagues here once said, I already bought a plot in the house of life, I already know where I'll be in 120 years. So we're part of the community here. Part of the place."
Behind an Iron Curtain
Q: Let's go back to the Russia that you first encountered upon arriving, almost three decades ago.
"I came here toward the end of the communist era – in 1987. [Mikhail] Gorbachev had assumed power and he started talking about perestroika and glasnost."
Q: Give me a snapshot from your memories of Russia from that time. What did you see?
"You land at the airport and you are overcome with fear. They check your passport and detain you. That's not you in the photo, something wrong, stand aside. After 15 minutes they come back to you and check you again. This time you pass through and go to collect your luggage. Then the customs inquiry begins. Of all the people around, you're the only one who gets stopped. They open your suitcase and take everything out: books, religious objects, kosher food, tzitzit, tefillin, everything piled up on a table. They take you into a room, strip you down, they even check your shoes, maybe you're smuggling something. You start to realize that you are being monitored all the time. You leave a place and you see a car following you. They eavesdrop on your conversations in the hotel and on the street."
Q: In what kind of state did you find the Jewish community here?
"Broken and scared. There were people with enormous, strong faith, unlike anything I'd seen anywhere else in the world. I saw uncompromising dedication to observe the Jewish laws and commitment to Judaism and to the State of Israel. Religious and nonreligious, people here studied Hebrew and Zionism covertly underground. I would meet them in the middle of a forest or in a safe house. But I also met people who were exhausted and frightened to the core. They held on, but didn't think beyond survival."
Q: The oppression machine was so successful that they were occupied only with survival.
"Right. Really just survive. They helped one another but didn't dare imagine something new. Across the entire Soviet Union, there were only a handful of synagogues. I visited all of them. Before the revolution there were hundreds of synagogues – in Moscow alone there were about 60. All of them closed, except for a select few that were sanctioned to operate under the close watch of the KGB. There were informants who would report to authorities every single person who entered, and the following day there would be problems. Talking to someone like me, who came from abroad, was dangerous."
Q: Why did you come to Russia in the first place?
"I came to teach these people in the underground. I was allowed to enter as a tourist. I lived in government-supervised hotels and I was forced to return to the hotel every night. They tried to force me to go on their organized trips, but I came up with excuses each time. One time I was late for the bus, another time I said that the trip was in conflict with my Jewish identity.
"I came three times, each time with a friend, and stayed about six weeks. I think the authorities became wise to us."
Q: The authorities may have realized what you were doing here, but did the Jews understand?
"Not at all. People were afraid to talk to me. They didn't know who I was. We spoke in code, and a sleuthing game would ensue: who am I, can I be trusted. They showed us photos, they gave us phone numbers to memorize, and they asked that we call only from public phones. Then we met groups that studied Hebrew and a group that studied Torah, people who did kosher slaughter and printed books, which was really forbidden. Circumcision was also forbidden."
Rats, drunks and hunger
Q: But these were pioneers. Most just gave up.
"In the entire city, there were only a handful of Jews who kept the fire going, because they knew that the minute they give up it would be all over. They would be alone. From time to time they would tell me a story about begging someone to help with something or send something from the West, and nothing would arrive. They said, 'We understand you're busy but help us survive.' The night before I left, Jews came in from Leningrad, from Tashkent, from Baku, to bid me farewell. I told them that I was going back to the U.S. and that I wouldn't forget them, I would help them. And then, one of them stood up and said, 'Don't say things like that. Everyone says that. You'll go home to your business and you'll forget us.'"
Q: At that time they also didn't believe that redemption was near and that the regime would soon collapse.
"They didn't even imagine it. They were certain that they would never get out of here. Not even for a visit. They were convinced that they would never see Israel or the West. One time, when I went to the rebbe before my second trip, he gave me a blessing and a dollar to give as charity in the Holy Land. The secretary reminded him that I was going to Russia, but the rebbe insisted that I give the charity in the Holy Land. So I traveled to Israel and I took a video camera and filmed a lot of footage. When I arrived in Russia, the people there saw what was happening in Israel for the first time. It was a dream for them."
Q: Would you say that these people became a part of your soul?
"Very much. I married them. I felt that these were Jews with true dedication. They were heroes, and no one was giving them as much as a glance. I couldn't understand how the West, with all its endless possibilities, was unable to help. Then, after I got married, I came back here with my family as an emissary. That was in the early 1990s, before the Soviet Union collapsed."
Q: What was it like to live here in those days, as a Jewish family and a Chabad emissary?
"Rats infested our house. There were thefts, drunks and hunger. I came home and all our clothes had been stolen. There was nothing to buy in the stores. After our first year, we flew to visit the U.S. with the girls and we were in shock at the sheer abundance. Though we had lived most our lives in the West, we had grown accustomed to the reality in the Soviet Union, where there are only potatoes and carrots in the store, and maybe one more thing if we were lucky. Try making a recipe for Shabbat with that."
Q: In fact, you experienced the collapse of communism and the dissolution of the Soviet bloc. When did you realize that you were witnessing history?
"When we celebrated Hanukkah at the Kremlin, at the end of 1991. The Soviet Union was still in place, at least officially. We brought Jewish singers and we lit a menorah – all with the approval of President Gorbachev."
Q: Did you know that the regime was about to fall?
"Not entirely. I felt like something was about to change. The fact is that they allowed Jews to enter the Kremlin and play Jewish music, despite the demonstration staged by a powerful anti-Semitic organization against Jews stepping on the sacred Kremlin stones. Two weeks later, the regime fell and an atmosphere of progress erupted. The situation was very unstable, prompting a wave of anti-Semitism. Our synagogue was torched, and twice, bombs were planted there. People on the street threatened us with knives and violence. Jews were murdered. Swastikas were spray-painted at cemeteries and gravestones were vandalized."
Q: On the other hand, you personally met Gorbachev.
"I met with him and with Boris Yeltsin, his successor. But the Jewish issue was still taboo. They were scared to talk about it, afraid to spark anti-Semitism. Incidentally, this past year I met Gorbachev and he said to me, 'Don't forget, don't let your people forget, that I was the one who opened the door for you.'"
Q: When did you first meet Putin?
"During Yeltsin's term. We gathered all the communities in Russia and issued a list of demands to the government. We wrote to President Yeltsin that we wanted to meet, but he declined. I didn't give up. So they told me that the prime minister, Putin, who had just been appointed, was willing to meet with us. In that meeting, he said that he opposed the departure of Jews. He said he understood that they didn't feel comfortable here and that he wanted to change that. Because of the political instability, no one believed that he would remain in power or that he would make good on his promises. That was our first meeting.
"After Yeltsin resigned, Putin became president, and we asked again for a meeting. We wanted to invite him to a Hanukkah service at a community center that had been burned in 1933 and that we had rebuilt. Some 30,000 Jews arrived at the event. Putin showed up and gave a powerful speech expressing understanding and validating our fears. He pledged that in Russia, Jews would be proud of their Judaism. People stood up and wept. They couldn't believe it."
It is good to scatter
Q: You are describing a lot of work with the political leadership and the authorities.
"Part of my mission here was to be in contact with the local population. To talk, influence, sway opinions sometimes, show them who and what we are. Because the moment people start to understand that this is the Jewish people, there is less anti-Semitism, there is more appreciation for Israel, and our values are given more credence. Our sages said that God was kind to Israel by scattering them to all corners of the world. If the Jews all lived in Israel, they would have been isolated from the world. But I believe that our mission is to bring the values and the Torah to the entire world."
Q: But our sages' original meaning, when they said God was kind by scattering Israel, was that if we are scattered, we can never be exterminated, since we have no state or defense. They meant that the Jews could never be concentrated in one place for destruction, as the Nazis tried to do in Europe. You are looking at this in a new way: he scattered us to spread our ideas.
"Yes, part of the scattering among the nations is to attract non-Jews and gather sparks of holiness. But beyond that, it is a good thing that there are Jewish communities around the world today that support Israel with their ties to the local government or business community. You never know when or how a community will be called upon to help another."
Q: So Israel is just another Jewish community? One of many?
"I believe that the strongest possible Jewish community means the strongest support for Israel. The community here in Russia has contributed a lot to the relations between the two countries. Imagine that there were no Jews in the U.S., that they all came to Israel. Would that be good for Israel?"
Q: You don't think things would be better for Israel if there were another 10 million Jews there?
"And if there were another 20 million Jews in the world who didn't assimilate, it would be better. Our primary objective is to prevent the Jewish people from disappearing."
The greatest blessing is stability
Q: Don't we demand of our brethren in the Diaspora to come home?
"I have a geographical home, which is Israel, but to me, 'home' is also to return to being a part of the Jewish people. If we demand that U.S. Jewry come home, for instance, how many of the millions of Jews there would actually come to Israel? Maybe 100,000. But if we call on them to 'come home' in the sense that 'don't forget you are Jews; don't assimilate' I think we would be able to save every last Jew in the U.S."
Q: I agree. But we are talking about two separate things. The exile of the Jewish people is not our ideal. It was due to our sins that we were exiled. We scattered in a long, complex historical process. In the 19th century, German Orthodox Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch talked about how our ideal was to remain in exile. The land of Israel remained a spiritual idea, but he preached that we should remain in exile and spread our Torah and our values. Perhaps you are idealizing that notion?
"True. Exile is not a positive thing. It is a punishment, even. We say, 'Our eyes will witness your return to Zion in mercy.' This means really ridding ourselves of the punishment of exile and returning to Zion. But I also want to be practical. If a Jew approaches me and asks whether to go to Israel or stay here, how can I tell him what he should do? I thought a lot about it until I found an answer: You need to live wherever you can fulfill your potential as a Jew. If your children will marry Jews thanks to life in Israel, there is no doubt that you should go to Israel. But if moving to Israel will make you less dedicated to being Jewish, there is no need.
"On the other hand, if you are strengthening the local community, teaching and contributing, then your place is certainly here. Just as a Jew in Israel has a duty to defend and protect the country and make sure it thrives, the same is true of Jews in the Diaspora. They have a responsibility to protect the Jewish community."
Q: Besides your ties with the political leadership, to you engage with local philosophers and religious figures?
"Certainly. I have a good relationship with the Patriarch Cyril, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church – the counterpart of the Catholic pope. This man has enormous influence on hundreds of millions of people. There is also a chief mufti here in Russia, who influences about 30 million Muslims in the country, and I can say he is a friend. His grandson plays with the children in our community. He has done a lot of things to benefit Israel and has fought against anti-Semitism among Muslims. The three of us launch initiatives together. Incidentally, the patriarch and his close associates have been asking us for every new book that comes out in Russian – Talmud, Maimonides, hassidism. They are curious and eager to learn our original texts."
Q: Is this curiosity also characteristic of the general public?
"Yes. I teach at schools, give public lectures, appear on television. Once a month we hold an intellectual talk with a famous figure in the country and discuss a specific issue, and all this goes online. An open conversation between the rabbi and a prominent figure here."
Q: What about? Give an example.
"The issue of Shabbat fascinates them. The idea that Jews don't use electricity. Or the issue of circumcision. The gap between our ancient customs and modern life raises many questions, and they see that we have answers in every area. They've asked me about everything in the world – family life, relations between men and women, there is a lot of interest in Judaism. They see these civilized Jews who have these ancient laws."
Q: We've read quite a few Russian masterpieces – Chekov, Gogol, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin; I can hear Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff playing in my head. And everything we read in the history books. The Swedes coveted this land in the 18th century, just as Napoleon did in the 19th century, and the Nazis in the 20th. Then the Soviet revolution. There is a joke with a grain of truth that recalls how in the first politburo, Lenin was told to get out because it was one of the members' yahrzeit and they wanted to say the kaddish prayer. There is something tragic here, too. All our forefathers disappeared in the revolution because they really wanted to better the world. And here I am, riding along the streets of Moscow, and I see a Khruschev Street and building having to do with Stalin and everything gets mixed together. Russia has undergone a prolonged trauma over the course of 70 years. In these years, anything having to do with religion was suppressed and concealed. They viewed religion as a reactionary force and fought against it. In that time, countless Jews disappeared. They were swallowed up. Assimilated. Integrated. It seems that everyone here is more secular, more skeptical, and especially more cynical.
"True. The Russian people have known many traumas. I always say that the greatest blessing in this day and age is stability. Twenty years of calm, without revolutions, without war, without economic collapse. The Russian can't recall a time like that, they don't know what it's like to live in a calm country that gets better from day to day without having to build on the ruins of the past. They tried a certain way, broke down, experienced war, and then a revolution, and started over again. Too much shock therapy. I believe that they deserve to finally live a normal life, but no one knows how long it will last. This uncertainty impacts the mentality, it affects social relationships and even the family unit."
Q: The family crisis here is connected to the trauma we mentioned.
"True. People are scared of having more than one child when the situation is uncertain. They don't live in the kind of mind space that allows for long-term life planning. The divorce rate here is also appalling. Many times we get asked how we raise children, how we are able to maintain a family. People look to the Jewish family as a sort of ideal."
Q: They are still dealing with challenges in the health and education systems.
"Serious challenges. I'm not talking about Moscow or St. Petersburg, but Russia as a whole. Citizens want to be sure that they will have a job tomorrow, that their children will receive a good education and that they will be able to succeed. Therefore, I can say that we truly feel the problems in Russia. We care. We live together."
Staying out of politics
Q: This approach generates trust among the country's most powerful people.
"There are Muslim business people here who help the Jewish community with money, and more. They openly say that if we ever encounter a problem, like say anti-Semitism, we should call them and they will be the first to defend us."
Q: Why do they donate to the Jewish community?
"They understand that we are in the same boat. We are happy when they are happy, and vice versa. It is important for us to live alongside them in true friendship. They appreciate what we do, in the area of humanitarian assistance among other things. We don't just help Jews, with medicine, in natural disasters and such. We have flown people to Israel for medical treatment and we've brought doctors here from Israel. At times of terror attacks, we use our connections in Israel. We bring business people together, we introduce IDF initiatives to them, and in every field where Israel has experience and know-how."
Q: We spoke earlier about the current crisis between Israel and Russia. As a rule, where do you stand on Israeli-Russian relations?
"We stay out of it. I think it is wise not to interfere. No one knows what the day will bring and what the interests will be tomorrow. Our objective is to protect the Jewish community here. Thank God, today the relations are good, but what will be tomorrow? There are so many factors – America, Europe, Syria, Egypt, Iran. Why should we get involved?"
Q: Is that why you don't remark on what's happening in Syria and in Iran?
"I can voice an opinion, or raise an issue with the president, but I won't get involved. I just received a phone call, by the way, about synagogues and Jewish cemeteries in Aleppo, Syria. We are working to preserve them, and we are even going to get help removing the graves from there. Indeed, President Putin is involved and providing assistance."
Only eternal wisdom
Q: Let's talk a little about Chabad. Chabad has produced a remarkable amount of intellectual literature, but lately, all I've been hearing from Chabad is talk of the rebbe. The rebbe said, the rebbe sent, the rebbe explained…. I wonder, where did our people's gift for literature go? The Bible, the Mishna, the Talmud, midrashim, the literature of the Middle Ages, commentary on the Torah, the Zohar, Halachah, worldly literature?
"There are many people whose connection to Judaism grew stronger thanks to the rebbe's teachings. He knew how to talk to modern people. That's why I understand those who say 'the rebbe said' in every other sentence. Though I don't necessarily agree. We have a heritage that goes back thousands of years. The rebbe didn't say anything new. He just revealed to us what the Talmud says, what the halachot say, what the interpretations say. He taught Torah all his life, from the Torah itself, from the Rashi commentary, from the deepest texts in the first and last books – kabbalah and the like. It is very limiting when everything revolves around the rebbe."
Q: Could it be a kind of post-trauma, seeing as the rebbe had no successor, making people feel like orphans?
"It really isn't easy, but I don't think it's a result of post-trauma because it happened while he was alive as well. When I was a young man, I remember one of his greatest admirers saying that we shouldn't talk about the rebbe as the highest authority. There is Gemara, there are sacred texts, and if you want to add to that, you can include the teachings of the rebbe. My father was a rabbi in a synagogue, and you will never hear him using that language even though he is a great admirer of the rebbe. So I agree with you, and I think that here, in Moscow, we have succeeded in motivating people to sit and study on their own. And the Jews of Russia are naturally intelligent, inquisitive people."
