United Torah Judaism MK Moshe Gafni wants one thing right now – to tone down the rhetoric. Given the past few months and the public and media uproar over the supermarkets law, an amendment to the Local Authorities Law that gives the interior minister the power to shutter businesses that choose to remain open on weekends, Gafni understands that any media statement could potentially land him in hot water. He is adamant to set his party's aggressive policymaking aside, for now, in favor of some peace and quiet.
This pause aims to serve neither the ultra-Orthodox or secular sectors. The target audience is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who asked his haredi coalition partners to tone down the intense arguments about matters of religion and state, which in turn will preserve the coalition and keep Yesh Atid leader Yair Lapid from gaining momentum in the polls.
Gafni seeks to change the classic haredi opposition to any discussion about the nature of the public sphere on Shabbat from "inconceivable" to "we must maintain dialogue between the haredim and the secular public."
This may sound as if he is willing to consider a compromise on Shabbat, which could lead to dangerous criticism from his constituents, so he clarifies: "I didn't say that there is a compromise, only that we have to maintain a dialogue. I'm all for dialogue, but no one should assume I support any compromise on the issue of Shabbat."
Gafni, it seems, has to balance a never-ending conflict. This was reflected several weeks ago, when Hadashot evening news aired a tape of him saying that the Interior Ministry plans to use non-Jewish inspectors to enforce the new supermarket law and that "not only did we [United Torah Judaism] maintain the status quo, we've made progress on the issue of observing Shabbat."
The comment, which reflected on the situation in the public sphere, sparked public and media uproar and thousands of secular Israelis took to the streets in prowwww.
Unlike other politicians, who constantly boast their achievements, Gafni, who heads the Knesset's Finance Committee, has to keep something of a low-profile as part of his efforts to appease both sectors. Promoting the supermarkets law appealed to the ultra-Orthodox sector, but on the other hand, Gafni went out of his way to assure secular Israelis that the situation on the ground will remain the same.
"These have been a rough couple of weeks," he admits, "but I always tell the truth. In the past, there were certain issues that you emphasized more when you spoke with haredim and other issues you stressed before the secular public. Today, you tell everyone the same thing. I don't tell the haredim one thing and secular people another thing. And I don't understand why they [the media] made such a big deal out of it."
As for his controversial remark about municipal inspectors who will enforce the new law, Gafni said that "it's not the government that hires inspectors – that's up to each municipality. They can bring in more inspectors, less or none."
The supermarkets bill, which mainly targets convenience stores, has been lambasted as a change to the religious-secular status quo and as coercion by ultra-Orthodox parties Shas and United Torah Judaism, which threatened to exit the coalition unless it was enacted. It evoked a harsh public backlash and dozens of mayors across Israel said they would not enforce it.
Q: Interior Minister Aryeh Deri said he has no intention of enforcing the supermarkets law.
"That's true. Deri said he can't enforce the law and neither can the government. It's up to local authorities."
Q: So why do we even need it?
"The supermarkets law stops the erosion of the status quo, which could lead to the fact that Shabbat won't be observed in Israel," he explained. "In reality, the law does not introduce any dramatic changes and what was is what will be. I said that we will increase the enforcement of work and rest hours. That's in the interest of everyone, so people won't be slaves."
Q: So will convenience stores remain open on weekends?
"If a city wants to do that it needs approval from the Interior Ministry."
Q: As an ultra-Orthodox, Deri will have a hard time approving that.
"He's not closing anything down. He will let the status quo stand."
Gafni explained that while a city that already allows convenience stores to remain open on weekends may not be able to allow additional stores to do the same, it will retain the option of not sending inspectors to fine business owners.
Dismissing the notion that an arrangement of that nature relegates the new law to nothing short of a political bluff, he said, "You need to understand that the supermarkets law aims to deal with the issue of a 'Jewish and democratic state' and the question of who has final say over municipal bylaws. As far as enforcement goes – the interior minister has no say on the matter. Only the municipality can decide on enforcement issues. I'm not telling secular Israelis that [convenience stores] will be open on Shabbat, but they will be open on Shabbat."
Q: Why do you care what the residents of Tel Aviv do?
"As chairman of the Finance Committee, I've been accused of approving motions in exchange for 'fees' in the form of budgets for the ultra-Orthodox sector. That's malicious and it infuriates me. Rabbi [Elazar] Shach [UTJ's late spiritual leader] once told me that we are part of the entire Jewish people. When things go well for everyone they go well for us, and when they don't they are even worse for us. I deal with problems that affect the general public as a whole. I care about the factories in the south and tax benefits for communities in the north."
United Torah Judaism lawmakers traditionally avoid accepting ministerial positions due to the party's reluctance to grant full legitimacy to a secular Jewish state. Asked if, given his political practices he would consider accepting a ministerial appointment, Gafni reveals he has refused them in the past and will continue to do so in the future.
"I won't accept a ministerial appointment. As chairman of the Finance Committee, I'm involved [in policymaking] and I shoulder responsibility for everything," he said. "I have been offered the position of economy minister and other ministries as well. There is a decision of the Council of Torah Sages not to be a minister. I'm not running away from responsibility. I'm on the Finance Committee and I look out for everyone."
A changing reality
As far as Gafni is concerned, the supermarkets law has done more good than harm.
"When the dust settles we'll be left with a principled idea that maintains [the existing] balance and we'll be able to talk about how to go forward from there," he said. "There's a new reality in Israeli society that we don't know how to deal with: There are more cases of Shabbat desecrations but there is also a growing number of people who observe [Shabbat]. You see it on kibbutzim, in sports – you have soccer players who don't want to play on Shabbat. I don't have an explanation for this, I just know that we need to find a solution that agrees with both sides of society."
Q: When Lapid forced ultra-Orthodox youth to enlist in the IDF, observance showed a downturn. When secular Israelis are not forced to observe religious decrees they do so voluntarily. Coercion is wrong.
"We are not forcing stores to shutter. We were dragged there by the High Court of Justice, which doesn't care if it creates tensions in society. Its rulings seek to look out for secular interests, but what about the Shabbat-observing public that cannot apply for jobs on businesses that operate on Shabbat? What about grocers whose businesses suffer over it? Do we throw them to the dogs?"
Q: The supermarkets law, the lack of public transportation on Shabbat, the shelving of the Western Wall compromise – it does not seem as if the haredim are reaching out to the secular public.
"The supermarkets law won't change anything. The Western Wall compromise? There's already a place for anyone who wants to hold mixed prayer services, so why upset tens of thousands of worshippers who want things to remain the same? Public transportation on Shabbat is a matter that was set in place when the state was established. If there's public transportation on Shabbat all the systems around it will need to operate as well and that will grossly change the status quo."
Gafni believes the latest Shabbat crisis is behind us. As for Lapid, who automatically gains momentum whenever crises involving issues of religion and state flare up, Gafni believes any political gain marked by Yesh Atid does not stem from the ultra-Orthodox parties' moves.
Legislatively speaking Lapid "has accomplished nothing," Gafni said. "Once in a while he gets headlines about matters of religion and state. We've done nothing to make him stronger. If the issue of Shabbat was what made a party's mandates rise or fall, then Yisrael Beytenu – a coalition partner that opposed the [supermarkets] law – would have seen a rise [in the polls] but they didn't. Once everyone calms down they'll see that there are no laws that are out to upset the current order as we know it. The public will see that we work on the merits and look out for everyone, and Lapid will remain in the corner."
Q: The ultra-Orthodox parties enjoyed a period of public consensus, you were able to annul the draft and core studies laws and pass unprecedented budgets for the haredi sector and no one protested. Were all these controversial laws really necessary?
"We were looking out for the public as a whole, not just the haredi sector."
Q: Still, you are the only MK who cannot boast your achievements because of public criticism. Isn't that frustrating?
"There are no achievements that benefit the haredi sector specifically. There are achievements that benefit the public as a whole," he reiterated.
Gafni insists that he and his party remain unaffected by the criticism leveled at them by the haredi media, saying, "I don't care what they write. But this is an opportunity to send a message, which is that I call for a dialogue."
Despite his many years in politics, Gafni admits he is not considering retirement at this time. "I'm not tired, but I do want to go back to the kollel," he said, referring to an institute for full-time, advanced rabbinical studies.
Q: Will we see you in the next Knesset?
"Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know. I'll have to ask the Council of Torah Sages."
