"The problem with the so-called peace process is that no Palestinian leader, it seems, has ever been prepared to say – in Arabic – that Israel has a right to exist. And as long as the Palestinian leadership refuses to concede that, it's very hard to see how there can ever be any kind of settlement involving Israel and a Palestinian state. A Palestinian state would have to exist on an absolutely clear and accepted understanding that Israel's right to exist is completely unquestioned," says former Australian Prime Minister Anthony Abbott.
Speaking to Israel Hayom while in Israel for this year's Strategic Leadership Conference, organized by the International Institute for Leadership Dialogue, Abbott said that "people in modern Australia suffer some amnesia about its past."
Citing the Australian forces that spearheaded General Allenby's army in the liberation of Jerusalem and Damascus in 1918, as well as the battle of Beersheba, and in World War II drove the French Vichy forces out of Lebanon, Abbott says "We've done a lot in this part of the world, and I think it's important that we continue to add significant involvement."
Abbott led his Liberal Party to victory over Labor in the 2013 election, after the Left had been in power in Australia for a period of six years. While the Labor government was relatively friendly to Israel, the support was not as impassioned as it was under Abbott or under his successor, current Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.
Australia has become an ally in international forums, voting against anti-Israel resolutions in the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva and the U.N. General Assembly in New York. A few months ago, following U.S. President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Abbott urged his fellow Liberals in parliament to follow suit.
Q: Your government was considered the most pro-Israel government Australia ever had. Why do you think that was the case?
"Well, I guess I'm an instinctive conservative, very conscious of the fact that the culture that has shaped me owes an extraordinary amount to the Jewish people, to their faith, to their traditions, to their genius. Christianity is very much a product of the world Jesus inhabited. To take the Christian faith seriously, you should take the Jewish faith seriously, as well.
"Israel is the only pluralist democracy in the Middle East. It's a country under existential threat. It's a region of decency and freedom in a part of the world that has very little decency and freedom. That's why it deserves the strongest possible support from countries like Australia."
Abbottt assesses that Israel is in a strong strategic position "given that so many of the more sensible Arab countries see Islamic extremism and/or Islam as their main threat and they now inclined to see Israel as more of a friend, even a useful ally, than some kind of alien invader in their midst."
Still, he says, Israel faces a perilous future if Iran gets nuclear weapons, which is likely, and remains under an extreme Shiite regime.
Q: Do you consider yourself a Zionist?
"It's probably not a term that I would readily apply to myself, but I certainly think Israel has a right to exist behind secure borders."
Q: You said that Australia should move its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem if the U.S. did. Since Trump has now moved the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, is it a matter of time before Australia does the same?
"I wish it were just a matter of time. We should now move our embassy to Jerusalem, (a) because it would be a sensible measure of solidarity with Israel and (b) it would be a sensible step to support President Trump."
Q: Is there any particular aspect of Israeli-Australian cooperation that you feel should receive greater emphasis? Agriculture? Counterterrorism?
"Given that there are so many very significant Australians who have very close links to Israel, what I'd like to see is a stronger commercial relationship, closer institutional ties between Israel and Australia. I know there is more intelligence and defense cooperation now than there has been for a long time, maybe ever, but I think we should supplement it with more commercial and scientific cooperation.
"I think Australia can learn a very great deal from Israel and given the close personal links between significant Australians and Israel, why not make the most of it?"
Q: You were one of the leading proponents of stopping Australian funding to the Palestinian Authority.
"When I came here 18 months ago, I got myself briefed on exactly what Australia's funding in this area was doing. I was appalled to discover that some of it was going to the Palestinian Authority and was therefore at least potentially funding payments to families of terrorists. I said on my return to Australia that not only should we move our embassy to Jerusalem if [U.S. President Donald] Trump did, but that we should stop any aid to the Palestinian Authority while they were sending it to families of terrorists. So I'm pleased that at long last there has been some movement on that score."
Q: Now that Trump has withdrawn from the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, would you support boycotting Iran?
"I've always thought that the Islamic theocracy in Tehran is a menace. I've always been deeply skeptical of any promises they make to slow down their nuclear program, and I never thought the deal would have credible safeguards. So I think Trump has done the right thing by pulling out of it and I think Australia should maintain strong sanctions against Iran."
Q: Any thoughts on become prime minister again?
"I'm in the parliament, and I have no plans to leave parliament. Whether I would lead the party again would be a matter for my colleagues. … I guess as long as you're in parliament, you're there to serve, and you never know what form that service might take."
Q: I'm sure Israel would love to have you as Australia's first ambassador in Jerusalem.
"I'm too young to be an ambassador," he laughed.
The conference Abbott is attending was founded a decade ago as the Australian-Israel Leadership Dialogue by Australian Jewish philanthropist Albert Dadon.
In 2010 Dadon was approached by British MP John Speller, who thought it would be a good idea if his colleagues participated in the event. In 2011, the U.K. joined officially, and the organization became the Australia-U.K.-Israel Leadership Dialogue. Starting this year, the Americans have also been a part of it, so the conference changed its name again to the International Institute for Leadership Dialogue.
Q: What is the main goal of the conference, in its new format?
"We change formats every once in a while. This is our 10th conference. Of the 10, eight were held in Israel. One was held in Australia, in 2009, and one was held in London in 2012. So every few years, we change things around, otherwise people lose interest.
"This time, what we've done is quite drastic. We lifted all Chatham House rules," he said, meaning nothing is off the record.
Q: So now everything is on the record.
"Everything is on the record. It's better this way, because we live in a world where everything is on the record. There are no more secrets. It's not a bad thing – when things are not on the record ... people can get the impression that we're conspiring, which is what groups like BDS [the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement that seeks to isolate Israel internationally over the Palestinian issue] would like to portray.
"It couldn't be further from the truth. I think we are a very positive group of people with positive ideas trying to advance things in a positive way for all parties concerned."
Q: How are you creating a dialogue through decision-makers and shapers of public opinion?
"Let's talk about the Geneva Convention. I remember we once had a debate about the Geneva Convention. We were trying to change certain words enough to [allow] western militaries to defend themselves and citizens without having their hands tied behind their backs when it comes to terrorism. Terrorists fight in civilian clothes, while the military has to fight in uniform, which makes them a target, while terrorists blend into the population. These issues were never taken into consideration by the Geneva Convention.
"At least we presented it to governments. We had to go through bureaucrats to get to governments – the old world. This time, rather than even trying to bypass bureaucrats, we're putting it [the conference] on a podcast. We're just leaving it there for whoever is interested, so they can make up their own minds and take it up as policy if they want."
Q: Do you have speakers from other Middle East countries?
"Until last year, the conference visited Ramallah. We found the discussions to be totally unfruitful."
Q: Can other Middle Eastern countries join the forum?
"I'm sure that would work, unless they become completely democratic, adopt western values, are totally friendly to Israel – then it would happen."
